If There Was A Protest Against The Owner….

….would you feel empowered to join in/come along?

Or would you actively try and stand against it?

Or would you meet it with apathy and go to your seat and watch whatever you are served up? And do so week after week?

And whatever group you fall into, what would it take for you to move over to another group, whether it be positively or negatively?

(THIS IS A GENUINE ATTEMPT TO SPARK DECENT AND EVEN DEBATE/VIEWS - LETS NOT HAVE ANOTHER POLARISING THREAD ETC)

 

Put against the latter days of Bonser; Petchey; Bassini, I think the pretext is slightly thin, but not without some merit. Does rather feel like a bit of a tipping point.
Put another way, I’m in.

 

Wouldn’t be able to display my camp (seeing as I can’t go to games from the States) but would meet it with apathy for the most part. I think the ownership/hierarchy has been disappointing in certain ways but I don’t think they are malicious in the way that ownerships that have been prominently opposed in recent years have (Blackpool, Hull, Charlton and maybe even the Glazers are among those who come to mind). In my view I think protesting poor decision-making is different from destroying/hollowing out clubs for personal gain and I think only the latter (or slightly mitigated versions of the latter) is what fan bases should openly protest about.

What would the goal be of the protest? “Pozzos out?” “Pozzos make better decisions?” “Pozzos develop a more salient vision for the club and communicate more regularly with the fans?” I sense it is the latter two and if so I do think that’s a bit thin.

So it wouldn’t be for me. But who am I to tell other fans what opinions they should or shouldn’t voice?

Edit: I think what it would take for me to join the protest camp (were I to attend matches) would be for me to recognise a clear trend of divergence between the Pozzos interests and the club’s and for me to repeatedly see the Pozzos prioritise those interests and are not trying (if failing) to act in the best interests of the club. I am sure there are some who think that certain actions (eg working with Mogi Bayat) demonstrate this but I don’t agree. To join the group opposing the protest would I think would actually require given that I think people should express whatever (non-hateful) views they have about the club they love although I think a clear vision for the club communicated to the fans coupled with promising results that are a direct result of that vision would lead me to lose all sympathy with the protesters.

 

Yep I’d make the effort to go. Can’t stand the Pozzos and would love them gone. I don’t think there would be many of us though. Too many weak minded docile fans.

 

Appreciate your reply - and I think the bit I’ve highlighted is definitely key to it.

Personally, I think there has to be some sort of catalyst to at least get Gino out of his cave and tell us clearly, and in no uncertain way, what the target is and quite how he plans change to achieve it. And I think there has to be an apology for being so elusive over the past years.

At that stage fans can take a view on what way they want to go…

I think we are at a stage now where the above will not happen without some sort of wide-scale attempt from fans to draw it from him. If we go forward with apathy, it will be met with another Duxbury statement, probably Giaretta moving on and the next stooge moving in.

I’d be behind a concerted attempt to get Gino to talk to fans in a wide-ranging manner. Not just a vague statement and then he returns to the shadows thinking he’s done his bit.

 

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying and as you say that is definitely the key bit.

What I will say is (and I know this is somewhat random) if you look at Boro - they have in Steve Gibson an historically good owner to whom they have a lot to be thankful about who then made a series of poor decisions that had them really struggling for a number of years. But look how quickly it is turning around from them as a result of appointing Wilder. Things turn quickly and I think good/smart ownership will generate good results more often than not.

My hope is that the Pozzos will make some good decisions over the next few years (perhaps as a result of increased accountability) that serve to show them as ‘good owners’ and help us fall back in love with them and proud of the club. The trajectory has been downward for the last 3 years but a trajectory heading downward can start heading upward again. For me that’s got to be the purpose of any protest or fan response. In the absence of alternative owners and even in the presence of particular alternative owners who have no record they can point to (essentially anyone other than the RB group - I would love it if they came in for us) wanting to see the Pozzos out would be a far riskier position to protest for than wanting to see the Pozzos improve and set better structures in place. And that starts with an independent DoF who comes from outside of the Pozzo network.

 

Have the owners made bad decisions the last few years? - YES
Are they bad owners - NO

Know the difference.

 

I just want some communication.

 

Lol.

 

I wouldn't be at all in favour of protests.

I wouldn't 'make a stand' against such protests - there's way more important things - but I wouldn't look kindly on them.

As far as I can see, the owners are trying their best even if they're making mistakes and we could be in a lot, lot worse position.

 

Interesting how you highlight three 'demons' of the past.

Bassini was a crook / idiot or both depending on your point of view - for me the worst.

Petchey actually built two new stands with the money from transfers for Furlong and Dyer. I am open to correction but I believe he left the club on a sound financial footing? He was a sensible businessman but insisted that the club had to be run from earned income. He was not a 'sugar daddy' and was not prepared to invest heavily himself. I attended a fans forum in which he asked the audience if anyone was prepared to put money in? I don't think he was as bad as he was painted, just unable or not prepared to splash the cash.

Bonser of "Bonser Out" fame which went on for years and years and then some (according to my Dad). He insisted on and had complete & total control. He wasn't prepared to relinquish that control but at the same time did not have the means to take the club forward. The fans ire grew as he held the club back. I reckon this may be the history lesson from the past that the Pozzos should heed?

The situations are of course, very different. The club is now operating in the top tier whereas we were in Division 4 in those days. So big thanks and gratitude must of course go to Elton John / Graham Taylor and yes indeed, to the Pozzos. However, expectations have grown along with the club's status. The danger for the Pozzos is that they are already being seen as holding the club back (like Bonser). The danger for the club and it's fans / supporters is that already we have become used to feeding at the top table when the reality is the Pozzos do not have the money to be there consistently.

So my view is that the Pozzos must sell the club or seek further investment (which probably means giving up some control) to take the club forward. If they are going to take this route we won't hear much about it until it happens or nearly happens. Fine and I am prepared to wait a little longer to see if this happens.

On the other hand if the Pozzos are staying 'as is' then they need to come out, speak openly about their plans as a yo-yo club and set expectations accordingly. I believe they have spoken about being a "Top 30" club but this worries me. Too glib, financially that's a hell of a balancing act. There's a lot of talk on here about the current poor financial situation and if that really is the case I'm mad, seething and ready to actively join a public protest

 

I’m not necessarily Pozzo out as I think they’re capable of running the club far better than they are, but it requires change and if they’re not capable of that change that’s when I would want them out. Unfortunately all signs are pointing towards the fact that is unlikely at this stage so I would definitely be for some sort of protest.

I think Gino had a winning formula which now doesn’t work, but he seems incapable of evaluating this and adapting which is incredibly frustrating. Successful businesses generally have a good idea initially, they then have to constantly adapt to remain successful, other businesses will come along and copy what you do and try to do it better, so you have to constantly evolve to remain one step ahead which is perfectly possible to do. Gino seems a bit like Blockbuster Video at this stage. Yes, the modern scouting technology has eroded one of his main advantages, but there are many other controllable things that we can all see aren’t working yet he can’t.

The people who say it’s all down to money are missing three glaringly obvious things (or just ignoring them) The first is why are we already on our third manager? Why waste money on sacking managers and having our reputation ruined further if we simply can’t compete financially? The reason is Gino misguidedly feels this squad is good enough to stay up, he’ll keep hiring and firing all season because he thinks that’s the problem, not the players assembled. That feeds back to my first point, his system is broken but he cannot see it/acknowledge it and adapt.

The second point is our current situation, we are the worst team in the league on PPG, and we have spent money. We’re performing worse than we did under Aidy and that team was just a championship team that spent a season in the PL. Again that confirms it’s not all about money, it’s about how the money is spent and on what, and it’s clearly been spent absolutely woefully and for that the buck stops with Gino, you can’t blame Palace for having a slightly bigger ground on us now being worse than an Aidy team when money has been spent.

The third is the key one, we spent four seasons and 152 games in the PL without spending one single day in the relegation zone. I think this is really where the cognitive dissonance comes out when people start blaming money for our predicament. You can’t fluke that, but at the same time if you think it’s all about money you must think those four years were a complete fluke and in fact Gino isn’t a good owner at all, but just a lucky one? You can’t really have it both ways, why did we punch above our weight for so long, was it luck or was it judgement?

If it was judgement then that judgement has completely deserted Gino, but why ?

To get me back onside he needs to start making decisions that are all about our first 11 and what is best for it. The player trading model isn’t fit for purpose if you’re getting relegated, losing £100m+ and then having to asset strip everything good you’ve done just to survive. The player trading model needs to go in the bin as it’s actively harming everything including itself at this stage. You can’t buy a Sarr if you’re in the championship, but you will have to sell them. The second things is identifying what they want from a manger in terms of a playing style and getting them, they may well be in a job but so what. That last part is fantasy land stuff though.

 

I think, judging by a conversation I had with a very nice lad at W Herts pre match,that we have some fans who are blinded by previous success.
I would protest, mainly because Gino has failed to communicate with the fans.
I don't trust Duxbury,too many of his ilk in sport,full of platitudes and promises and essentially just a yes man for the boss.
I do know a lot of fans are losing their love of football as a sport not just in WD18.
Speak Gino.

 

Will it involve a two hour warm up drinking and eating in the bunker, before voicing our support?

 

Bit off topic, but when was the last fans forum? That would be the place to start but would need some coordinated effort to get a series of coordinated questions rather than half the usual drivel.

It would also need some work to pull together previous lines that were given to highlight stuff like the "lessons learned" crap.

Of course there probably won't be one.

 

The problem with protests is that it attracts the dregs of society and no doubt would do so here. I also don't really care enough to go to a protest either, it's just football at the end of the day.

A good way to make an impact would be for fans to stop going to games, especially when broadcasted live on Sky or BT. If the commentators and media start talking about a very noticeable drop in crowd numbers due to an ongoing fans protest it would be very hard for Gino to ignore.

If the 1881 and club related podcasters were to start being more critical of the club it would help, but then again I guess they are concerned they'll lose their social standing within the club and all the bonuses that come with backing the club regardless.

 

I was at the Grimsby game when the Petchey protest happened and looking at those two situations they are miles apart in my opinion. Different divisions for a start but I do wonder if Gino has taken us as far as he can
Gino did well as we all probably agree for the first 5-6 years but started to unravel after the cup final.
I felt Gracia was poorly treated after our best season since the 80’s. We spent our budget on a winger when we didn’t use wingers and obviously didn’t improve the defence. we then sacked him after 4 games.
since then I feel they’ve lost the plot. Some of the signings have been very odd, Pussetto and Kalu are good examples but the biggest thing for me is the coach. When changing every year it worked and at least I understood the reasoning behind the decisions but since Gracia it’s just been a mess. Pearson, Flores, Xisco, Ranieri just don’t make any sense and any kind of plan has gone out of the window.
I don’t think Gino is stupid but we need to change what we’re doing.
Go and get somebody like Martinez in the summer and build a squad around how he wants to play and give him the chance to do something. We as fans probably need to give him time as well.
Finally I want Gino to chat to the fans, at the moment he is showing a complete lack of respect.
Oh and sack Duxbury please

 

I would stunned if we got any sort of transparency from Gino tbh. I agree that this a big part of the problem.

 

I guess the point is, how do you obtain those changes? And is it the case that the majority of Watford fans care enough about it?

I sat in the family stand yesterday and looking around, with the parents with the kids who aren’t interested and are only there because their parents get a cheaper ticket - they don’t care. Same in the LGT, kids running around, most of the fans sitting, arms crossed tutting and shaking their head. Do they care? I’m not sure.

The 1881 don’t care. The only thing they care about is sitting in a certain area, standing all the time or changing the song away from the dreary dirge that’s played when the teams come out now. They’d rather people come to their club provided pre-match area and buy hot dogs. They don’t want to lose that.

If you look around social media, the majority of Watford fans are saying that ‘they are falling out of love with the game’ rather than any directed anger towards specific areas of the club. People don’t know the financial aspects about what we’ve borrowed against and debt levels. It’s never talked about by the loudest voices because they’ve been insidiously brought onside a long time ago by the club.

The typical Watford fan couldn’t care less as long as they get to a game with the tiniest amount of effort and emotion. I left early but I’ll assume there was a few sporadic boos like Norwich. With other clubs, it might have been anarchy.

 

Yep. Count me in.

 

A good start would be more fans on match day focussing the anger of their chants at Gino and Duxbury, rather than the players, manager, the away team etc. I think that would have a lot more short term impact than a load of spotty oiks protesting by marching from Spoons to the stadium.

 

Lol. You find your political cause and it’s this weak old shyte.

 

Maybe, but our chants are hardly complicated as it is.

Can anyone come up with a catchy line, easily sung by fans, that summarises the club’s incontinent use of cash and highly leveraged position? To the tune of Guantanamera or Volare if possible. Thanks.

 

Simply, the PL is getting more competitive. Our methods cut it for a few seasons, but now are ineffective as the bar has risen.

We were far too good for a weak Championship without ever even being convincing. Unfortunately it’s meant we haven’t done the hard graft of team building. Our players were not individually far behind Brighton yesterday. As a team, they were light years behind.

I’m not sure how we change that, because it’s not just the owners who get itchy after a few months without success.

 

If they were proven to be illigitimately stripping assets from the club by a court (or anything illegal) then fine.

Best protest would be with your feet. Go and watch Wealdstone or something.

 

That’s a myth, the most recent TV deal was rolled over on the same terms, so the money hasn’t changed since our first season. Why is it getting more competitive?

 

Need to find someone who is rich enough, and mad enough, to buy a football club, and run it at a loss forever

 

I wouldn't stand infront of anyone's opinions if they want to voice there concerns but it definitely needs to be one hell of an organised attempt of a magnitude that I don't believe will happen. A scattering of boos and complaining from the terraces are not enough. But as a fan who's moved away and only goes to a scattering of matches a season it's even more difficult to be involved even if I would.
They've not done all bad but agree I believe they've taken us as far as they can and now it's unravelling at an alarming rate. High profile mistakes constantly keep happening and the lack of funding is worrisome.
We've also so got the old saying that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. As history tells us the Bazza era was one that could of seen our club us done and dusted.
In all honesty as people have already said if Gino and Scott came out and took the hard questions and gave honest answers that simply would help, these questions would need to be collaborated within a group and targeted correctly and at the right moment. Unorganised people throwing questions left, right and centre doesn't work.
Their whole recruitment system would need to be looked at where a new younger manager who has a vision has a say on incoming and outgoings and most of all is given the opportunity to grow at our club. If this means 2 or 3 seasons in the Championship, then that's what it means and if it's for the greater good we as fans need to accept it and get behind the project. The only problem is we as humans and supporters want immediate results.
If the current regime stay they need a total reshuffle of how they run the club, can we see this? No. So I'm going and have been swinging towards them moving along for a good couple of seasons now. The total BS that spouted out of Scott's mouth again before the Summer window has and should even have the ardent fan questioning where are the club going.

 

I was in the family stand, but only because my 9 year old has annoyingly developed a passion for Watford at exactly the time that I've finally given up.

Meeting Harry at games and having her picture taken with Luther has kind of excited her about going to matches. She's obviously picking up on my vibe of hating it, and keeps telling me off for being on my phone on the Toxic Box instead of watching the match.

I went for a beer in Croxley to meet some old friends last night and one of my mates said he was having a beer with Harry prior to meeting us. If Harry the Hornet left, that would be the final nail in the coffin for me. He's the one, pure, good and decent part of our club these days IMO. I don't know how much he's paid if at all, but he's worth a million a year in my book.

 

More and more zillionaires and despots.