Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Burnsy, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team


    Within 60 seconds of it starting, one of them says they are struggling to shake the annoyance and malaise that surrounds the club right now after Saturday….

    …Leventhal replies and basically says ‘let’s ignore the negatives and just talk about (false) positives. Which is his M.O. Haven’t finished it yet but Twitter is already awash with people tweeting him asking why he’s defended our defensive recruitment and telling fans they should not focus on it.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  2. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Let me express my gratitude because despite my entire being screaming at me not to listen, I was torn/feeling my finger hovering over that 'podfollow' link. I'd managed to hold myself back so far purely on the basis of not being able to deal with how vexed it would probably make me, and now you have confirmed it.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  3. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Everyone involved with that podcast is an aching simpleton.

    Especially the sycophantic terd that posts on here.
    J.B, CarlosKickaballs and RS2 like this.
  4. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    I am slowly losing my respect for Leventhal. Yes, he is a good connection for fans' for going ons within the club, but his transfer to a sudden "yes man" is becoming concerning. How can he possibly defend our recruitment policy (in the defensive area) over the last years? It's been beyond pathetic with us still having to choose between Championship players in Cathcart and Masina as backup, while we look at other clubs who have moved their old rear guard on with upgrades? Last weekend was abysmal, regardless of who the opposition were - we didn't lay a glove on them. It was a spineless performance that has to go down as one of our worst.

    If he can sit there and pick out any positives from that, he is clearly going senile - along with any laughable comments that our defense if 'good enough' to keep us up.
  5. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Funny that he was suddenly jumping right on the bandwagon on the main Athletic podcast with Mark Chapman and James Horncastle, pretending he hadn't been relentlessly gaslighting for the club until the moment Xisco was booted, and now within one (appalling) game he's right back into the groove of misdirection and sputtering platitudes.

  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    If I’m honest I don’t really get listening to something you clearly don’t like and consistently knock. Adam will no doubt be chuffed it’s being highlighted on here and getting loads of Twitter impressions though - anything that potentially drives clicks to The Athletic is a winner.
    Arakel, dynamo380 and wfcmoog like this.
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I know AL can be irritating with his overly positive stance and defending the defence is indefensible. :D

    However, I think he's there for balance. The other guy, Mike is it?, he's a bit more like the rest of us and sees things a bit more gloomy. If they all started off like Mike, then I think everyone would turn off. Fans do want to feel that maybe someone thinks things are going to get better.

    Our defensive players are a bit of a head scratch though. I think we mostly agree, that as a unit and individually, our backline players are not up to it. Having stated that, how on earth did we equal the best ever Championship record for goals against, if our defenders are so bad?

    It's a puzzle to me that we were so good last season, yet look like cannon-fodder this season and all the other seasons in the Premier League come to think of it, apart from those first 29 games under QSF 1.0. Maybe AL is getting his idea (just as Gino probably does) that our defenders are good enough from evidence such as last season. He mentions that some of our players are full internationals, which is true. Chile, Nigeria & Northern Ireland are the countries in question though. Rose is of course ex-England.

    For me, Kiko sums it up perfectly. He was streets ahead in the Championship. A Rolls Royce of a player, but in the Premier League he's extremely limited. Here lies the problem. Our defenders sit in that imaginary zone, too good for the Championship but not good enough for the Premier League. I think that place actually does exist and is called Serie A.

    But having listened to the podcast, I think even Adam is growing tired of what he's saying. He doesn't really believe in it and was pretty angry and scathing (for him) after Liverpool. I get the feeling he doesn't really rate Ranieri. Nothing he said, but that's the impression I'm getting from him.
  8. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I do get what you're saying, but Watford media is so few and far between that you're always tempted to consume any that is produced in the hope that it will be interesting/enjoyable/insightful, and more to the point, as our behaviour on here clearly highlights, we all like discussion about Watford more than the average person. It's then almost doubly disappointing when it falls so short of reflecting the reality of the situation.

    That being said, I don't regularly listen to FTRE because of their incredibly annoying nature, which is disappointing. Besides, I'm already an Athletic subscriber, so I've literally already purchased the right to wave my pitchfork about, clicks be damned.
    Burnsy and UEA_Hornet like this.
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Well, for me at least, it's just a case of any kind of Watford-centric media being few and far between - and even less so now I'm predominantly based in the US (even though I'm back often for work like this week). Coupled with the fact that the far superior Watford Buzz Podcast doesn't come out with any regularity.

    And, much unlike FTRE, I actually enjoy listening to people who have the opposing views to me and trying to figure out if I can learn something or the angle they are coming from. Plus, you never know....I'm sure the podcasters involved do look at the forum (maybe they even contribute) so any kind of feedback is good feedback!
  10. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It’s ok, our podcast will set the world to rights.
    Burnsy and Chumlax like this.
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I agree it’s far too early to judge defensive recruitment, it’s not like we started the season net one CB down from the previous year, or that it’s nearly November and we’ve yet to keep a clean sheet.
  12. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I think what you've described doesn't just apply to defenders but all players. As I posted the other day, the gap between the PL and the Championship is now so great that Watford (and others) can't bridge it with their signings. We either end up with players not quite good enough for the PL or those at the wrong end of their career whose abilities are waning. That, coupled with the complete lack of development of any young players, leaves us floating in that level where we either do just enough or not quite enough to stay up. However I won't fall into the trap that that means we are a 'yo-yo' team; I don't believe such a thing exists, despite Norwich's best efforts.
  13. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Totally agree. Kiko, Masina, Cathcart and others weren't good enough last time we were in the PL so no reason why they would be good enough this time round.

    When we went up under Slav it seemed harsh to bin off the likes of Angella after being so pivotal in promotion, however what gets you up won't keep you up (unless its a blue pill...). We needed major squad surgery in the summer.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    To be honest, it needed that surgery 2 summers previous (the summer under Javi before relegation). The likes of Cathcart, Masina and Kabasele should been binned off and upgraded then. Instead they were kept, and Dawson was the sole signing. The fact that 3 summers on, all 3 of those defenders remain but Dawson has been sold for less than we signed him for and coached into being a good PL CB in the top half of the table tells us everything we need to know.
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    ...but didn't have the ££££s to perform it....
  16. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    And that in itself is a wider issue that football is eating itself up. A lot is made of the fact clubs get £150m for being in the PL, but not much is made of the fact it will cost them tens of millions to get there in the first place and that clubs need to spend that £150m and more on transfer fees and wages just to stay there.
  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Agree, 100%.
  18. HeiaWatford

    HeiaWatford Reservist

    how on earth did we equal the best ever Championship record for goals against, if our defenders are so bad? I've said it many a time! It was woeful finishing by the opposition pure and simple.
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Some people won’t have it but FFP and Covid have rendered the championship weaker than ever. Just look at Derby now vs a few seasons back. Go back 5/10 seasons and there were plenty of teams willing to gamble money on promotion, now there aren’t. It’s surely no coincidence ourselves and Norwich bounced straight back, which previously very rarely happened, and Bournemouth, WBA and Fulham currently occupy the top three spots.

    Our defence was nothing special, it just came up against the weakest crop of forwards in that league for some time. Couple that with the fact we kept an attacking player we probably wouldn’t have in years gone by, our defence was placed under even less pressure.

    The possible benefit of that is that bouncing back again will probably be easier again, the potential flip side is that parachute payments are also coming under more and more scrutiny.
    HeiaWatford likes this.
  20. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Whilst I agree with you, it's a lot more than just woeful finishing by the opposition. Most teams in the Championship were terrified of Sarr's pace. This meant rarely did a team press us when we were playing the ball around the back. Most teams wanted to sit back to contain us, rather than take us on.

    This meant Watford were very strong in snuffing out attacks and reducing shots on goal. Hughes was also a great foil in front of the defence by adding protection when travelling with the ball up field.

    Now in the Premier League, whilst teams are still wary of Sarr and Dennis' pace, they are far more confident that pressing Watford high, when defenders have the ball, will produce mistakes and rushed clearances. This is exactly what is happening. Unless we just launch it, and no side really wants to do that anymore, we are giving the ball away far too cheaply because opponents are pressing our weaker players. It all unravels very quickly.

    For me, this is the key difference between the leagues and the reason why our defence cannot adapt because they are weak on the ball. The two centre backs are decent enough defenders, good at blocking shots, but are pretty useless with the ball at their feet.
    HeiaWatford likes this.
  21. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Leventhal is a less engaging journalist version of Ben Foster.

    I know he’s a member on here so I’ll say this to him. Adam, you were great on SSN. I’ll always appreciate your reaction to announcing the passing of GT. It was all our reactions as Watford fans.

    But grow some balls mate.
  22. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Hey! Try being a real fan.

    This week we talk about some of the fun things Ben foster gets up to and look ahead to Everton.
  23. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Agree massively with this - and would add, you can be an average back line in this league…if you have positional sense. Our defenders have shown that they cannot cope with PL attacking units in terms of positioning and they get pulled all over the place. More often than not, when out of possession, you see a defence move in unison and a group of 4. Now watch ours this season….all over the place and a complete mess. They don’t move with each other and they have huge gaps between them.
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    For more of GD's provocative comments, listen to this week's BW pod.

    All the usual places.
  25. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    It's not the same since @Jon G was replaced as host.
    Burnsy likes this.
  26. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    BW pod sponsored by Tena for Men? Oh wait, I think that’s an actual ad I heard on an Athletic podcast of some sort.
  27. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Absolutely not. How can you wet the bed with a tena?
    Phnom Penh Horn likes this.
  28. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I’ve not tried to be fair. Tune into the UAE pod tomorrow morning for updates and breaking news.
    The undeniable truth and wfcmoog like this.
  29. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I’m reporting this post as I’m sure it’s insulting in some way. I haven’t checked on Twitter yet as to how but it’s only a matter of time.
    wfcmoog and UEA_Hornet like this.
  30. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Have we had Arab investment? What's the cut?
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    A huge issue many are overlooking in this thread when slating our defence and acting confused as to why it has seemingly gone downhill so quickly - our best CB last season was Sierralta. However, he hasn't even managed three full matches so far this season, partly through seemingly being misused or mistreated somehow, and also through being injured (which could also have been partly due to his inconsistent playing time).

    For sure we still should have also signed an additional upgrade at CB in the summer to cover or replace one of WTE or Sierralta, but when just looking at the players we've put out on the pitch, Cathcart is a huge downgrade on Sierralta and so it's no surprise our defence has looked shaky as hell with him in the team when we've been forced to use him. I'm sure we wouldn't have conceded quite as many as 5 had we had a fully fit Sierralta available against Pool instead of him.

    I'm also aware that Sierralta did score a dreadful own goal in one of his appearances for us, though he was only last minute called upon to play that game after FIFA finally dropped their threat to suspend him for not going on international duty. There seem to have been a lot of unwelcome distractions and set-backs for him this season.

    If we'd been able to have WTE and Sierralta playing every game together and keeping up their partnership from last season, then I'm sure it would have helped our defence to look more settled and composed. It wouldn't have made WTE any better at passing, but things wouldn't have been quite so much of a nightmare at the back as they have been lately.
    SkylaRose likes this.
  32. Abdi

    Abdi Academy Graduate

    I've never listened to this podcast but it sounds far too civilised for my liking.

    Football podcasts should all be vitriolic and abusive imo. Fuuck all interesting about listening to middle aged men monotonously discussing transfer strategy.
    Lloyd and Burnsy like this.
  33. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Actually think that it's the lack of a holding midfielder and a system that provides any protection for the back four that's hampering us more than anything.

    There have been so many occasions this season where opposition attackers have been running at our back four with none of our midfielders in sight, which is bizarre given we're not even at attacking team! Worst example that comes to mind was two minutes into the second half at Leeds where we'd have expected our players to have a half time rocket yet a simple pass led to a four on two (which luckily they messed up due to being unable to choose which of their multiple options to play in on goal!).

    You can paper over poorer defenders with a proper system but we don't have one.
    CaveManHornet, scummybear and Chumlax like this.
  34. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    A lack of graft and tackling ability in CM was our biggest defensive problem last season - our away game vs Brentford last season was a prime example. Etebo is a big miss currently in that respect as Kucka isn't up to it.

    Having to use Cathcart with his serious lack of pace has been as much of a problem this season though - two of our goals vs Pool were largely due to Cathcart's sluggishness, and the goal we conceded vs Norwich was another glaring example. Any ball played by the opposition in behind Cathcart has a significant chance of resulting in a goalscoring opportunity, regardless of what's going on in midfield.
  35. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    The WFC forums podcast - A series of cheese puns interspersed between sections of repetitive internecine polarised political squabbling, with the occasional joke about Deeney's weight. Hosted by Moog trying to do 4 different voiced characters
    SkylaRose likes this.

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