Leicester City 4-1 Watford Fc - Fa Cup Third Round - 08/01/2022

I'm not defending the loss at all.

I just think what actually happened was bad enough that we don't need to exaggerate like you are doing.

 

How is that an exaggeration. We shouldn't be losing that game 4-1. It's my opinion. You may think it's ok, or in line with what you expected, but I'm expecting a lot more from that side. It wasn't good enough. We need to be competitive and solid. I'm not see this at all. We've not progressed under Ranieri, or rather not progressed enough. Munoz's record is still better than Ranieri's and it really shouldn't be like this at this stage. We can't be so wide open at the back.

 

You think any other player would sign a contract with a relegation clause if we started allowing exceptions ?
Assuming that was the only reason he didn't sign.

 

After 4 months on the bench due to their much stronger established prem squad.

 

No, but probably Hughes was miffed that weaker players such as Kabasele, Cathcart, Sema were given bumper extensions before the new (50%?) policy came into force. It’s a bit of a never ending circle really. I’d really hope the new players have these clauses and it wasn’t just a passing fad for Duxbury.

 

Which it isn’t.

 

Good players always get special treatment.

Do we honestly think Kamara is leaving the South of France to come here with 50% relegation release clauses given how likely it is we are relegated?

 

You are just making straw man arguments over and over and over.

Noone is saying a 4-1 loss is acceptable so I don't know why you keep pretending they are.

You are just talking like we put out a team close to our 1st XI and they put out their U23s. That has absolutely no grounding in reality.

There is more than enough to get annoyed about when it comes to Watford without making things up.

 

Morris, Conteh and the other one got debuts FFS. As if any of them would get near our PL starting 11.

 

Not sure why you are twisting things. Not said Leicester played their U23's at all. They played a weaker side, a side so weak that the Premier League have agreed to postpone their next EPL match against Everton because they couldn't possibly play Everton with that line up. This is all true, so nothing is being made up.

We played 10 experienced professionals. This is what I said. I didn't say it was our first team, so again a little bit of spin by you.

My point is, we shouldn't be losing 4-1 to that side Leicester put out. It was a shameful result in the circumstance.

If you're going to come back, please do not make inaccurate interpretations to what I've actually written.

 

We gave debuts to 3 youth team players, Leicester are a better side relatively speaking to us so why is the result such a surprise? They still had players like Maddison playing who would walk into our side in every position including goal keeper.

We all get you want Ranieri gone, but do you not understand you’re completely undermining your point by doing things like doctoring stats and engaging in nonsense hyperbole?

 

As I thought.

 

We also played fairly well and the scoreline wasn't a fair reflection of the performance.

 

We did for about 10 minutes. Which is certainly an improvement. But we were ***** for the rest.

 

You are well aware two of these debut players came on after 74 minutes when the score was 3-1. But it is being promoted as a reason because it sounds better. The fact is, we played 10 senior seasoned pros against a weaker than normal Leicester team and got thrashed.

I'm not going to get drawn into the spin some of you are doing to try and deflect. We all know what happened and if you think it's worth defending and justifying, then so be it. I think it shouldn't be and some home truths need airing, but that's just my opinon.

 

Ok, answer me this then. You say Munoz might have done better, or at least not done any worse than Ranieri.

So how does his 1-3 loss at home to Stoke in the second round of the Carabo Cup compare and fit into your narrative? I’m all ears.

 

Am I defending the wasted money on players/contracts?

You think Hughes is better than 50% of PL midfielders? Fair enough, I disagree. Personally don't think he'd start regularly for any side in the top 8, and in my view that makes him an average PL midfielder.

 

The postponement has absolutely **** all to do with the strength of their team. All it means is that they don't have the required 13 players to play a PL game. That doesn't mean they can't put out an 11 that can be competitive against a heavily rotated Watford squad. They are taking advantage of the situation due to injuries and AFCON - as lots of other clubs are doing. The FA said they would not allow that during the FA Cup.

Its not like over the 70 minutes when we both had similar quality squads we were absolutely played off the park - it was just individual defensive shockers by the usual culprits and clinical finishing by quality players like Maddison and Tielemans while on our side Fletch and Cucho spurned gilt edged chances.

There were a lot of genuinely frustrating aspects to talk about - yet you seem more interested in twisting reality and engaging in hyperbole because you desperately want to use this as ammunition for Ranieri's dismissal.

 

Average for us = / = average for the PL because except for Moussa, the rest of our midfield is championship quality.

Hughes walks into our midfield and that is all that really matters.

 

It's just a silly analysis your putting. I think the cleaning lady might have lost 10 of 12 games. It's not an achievement. I think it's very dismissive to think Munoz would have done worse than that.

But, I guess you didn't go to the Stoke match you highlighted? We had 26 shots. It was a freakish result. Watford dominated and just couldn't score. Stoke had a couple of attacks late and scored both times. It was totally against the run of play and Watford certainly deserved to win that game.

However, in your red mist, you are missing the point. Ranieri has not improved us IMO. We are as shambolic at the back as ever. We've conceded 30 goals in his 12 games. City could have scored double figures against us. Leicester's weakened team scored 4 against us and it could have been more.

I'm not seeing the tactical improvements you would expect from a coach of Ranieri's calibre and reputation. We should be on a much firmer footing than we are, but it seems fans are happy trying to justify everything, making excuses and are not prepared to question things.

 

We did not play well.

 

Lol, red mist, I’m just trying to help you out, you make some good points but then completely undermine them by making stuff up.

The city comment is just plain bizarre as well, they almost have scored double figures against us multiple times.

 

I said "fairly well". I don't think 4-1 was a fair reflection of the game. Stats back up that feeling, same no of shots, same possession, same corners etc. At 2-1 and 3-1 down we had 2 great chances to score and were always going to be at risk of conceding from a breakaway. Yes we were second best but I didn't think the performance was 3 goals worse.

 

It was the “at best” I disagree with. Obviously he would never start for a top 8 club and I didn’t say that. However he’s far superior to the likes of Tufan and Kucka that we have stinking the place out, and indeed would be far more effective this season than Louza who we paid £9m for and has only started 5 games under 2 different managers.

 

HB1 has gone into full “Walt Mode”

 

I'll grant that you are not a liar. But are you a lawyer?

 

You better believe it.

 

Again, me thinking it's justifiable to stand our ground in contract negotiations with an average PL player does not excuse inadequate recruitment, and I've never said it does.

I see Hughes as an average PL midfielder, and based on the evidence of this season, I'd say Tufan/Kucka are below average midfielders. Separate issues.

Louza and Hughes I would argue have had very similar outputs in terms of their PL performances this season, also think Louza has a higher ceiling so personally don't have a massive problem with replacing Chalobah and Hughes with Etebo and Louza. Personal preference though

 

Still can’t get my head round Palace having stayed up since they beat us in the Playoff Final. Even that season when they lost their first 20 games or whatever.

 

Comfortably too. Different era though with the likes of Cardiff, Hull, Stoke, Swansea, WBA, Sunderland, Fulham, Norwich all in the prem in those days.

 

I think there is a lot to be said for the fact that both Chalobah and Hughes were already familiar with the league and the physicality of English football, they knew the squad and were part of the leadership group. I think that the nuclear approach that Pozzo took very early in the negotiations with Hughes was childish - freezing him out and sticking him in the U23s.

I dont necessarily disagree that Louza has higher ceiling and he may well go on to be a good player for us, but our only priority right now is staying up this season, and it has taken Louza months to be in a position where he can start a game. Hughes would have started every game he was fit for us since GW1 and I have no doubt we would be on a higher points tally.

 

Fair enough, but Troost-Ekong is also familiar with English football, is part of the leadership group, but much like Chalobah, he isn't good enough.

Disagree, and many Palace fans seem to think Hughes wasn't used until recently because of a lack of fitness. In my opinion Louza has been under-utilised, should have started more games and has played well in the majority of them.

Agree to disagree then on each individual's ceiling. Louza is 22 and has already made 50+ top flight appearances. Hughes had barely stepped into the PL at 22 and has only made 70+ at 26. Admittedly Ligue 1 is a step down from the PL, I do think the signs look good for Louza and he'll prove to be a good buy.

 

Hughes has proven himself good enough to play in the PL over a number of years. WTE was a bench option for a team near the bottom of Serie A. Hughes is a better player AND has those other benefits.

Chalobah probably isnt good enough to start for a proper PL squad week in week out, but I would 100% take him over Kucka and Tufat.

I suspect the reason part of the reason that Hughes wasn't match fit is because Gino threw his toys out the pram and sent him to the U23s.

I think you have misread my comment about Louza's ceiling as you are making the same point as me. However, I would say that Will could easily have moved to a club in the PL at a younger age but chose to stay in the champ out of loyalty to derby and because he wanted to be playing every week for his own development. He also had rotten luck with the timing of his ACL injury.

 

WTE started 29 games in Serie A the season before joining us.

I'm getting a bit bored now so we'll just agree to disagree and leave it there

 

It occurs to me that the nature of Serie A and the international matches in which WTE normally features means he is subjected to much less sustained pressure- physical and mental- than is the case in the EPL and so is far less prone to simply 'cracking' under that pressure. Hopefully Samir is less prone to that sort of 'mental disintegration' (as the Aussie cricket team loved to put it) and so is less likely to make as many catastrophic errors.