Do We Survive?

18 games to go, new manager, 2 points off safety.

Do we survive?

 

We have to believe we will.....

SO COME ON U 'ORNS​

 

Probably not. Newscastle have too much money and have been quite sensible with their signings. Everton will improve under Lampard with a bit of new manager momentum I imagine and I can see Van de Beek being a very good signing for them. I am not sure about Dele Ali. Our best hope is Brentford having a dreadful second half of the season, which is very realistic.

 

No chance.

 

We’ll be fine.

 

I think it'll go until the final few games - Newcastle's mostly bang average signings aren't going to suddenly completely transform them and I think similar can be said for Everton, and Brentford could quite easily get dragged right into it - but ultimately I think we are going, yeah.

For a second Premier League season in a row Pozzo and Duxbury have royally, well and truly, completely blown it again with their negligent, delusional, clueless, unexplainable approach to player/manager recruitment.

 

I think that probably just about every factor that is in play works against us, at this point, and that it's very likely that we have left it too late - and by we, I mean the recruitment team, and by late, I mean - not done it.

What is certainly the case, realistically, is that if there is a path to survival, it's not one that we can plot in advance. There are almost certainly going to have to be odd, insane victories over far better and more settled teams in some of these remaining 18 games; especially as we cannot with any confidence even rely on winning those few games against teams that are currently 'on our level'.

I think it's far more likely than not that we don't make it, and that if we do have any chance, it will largely not be in our own hands - as others have alluded to already, we're needing at least enough other teams to be exactly as bad as they already have been or worse, and quite possibly for one to be far worse than that.

With all being said, however, one thing I am oddly optimistic about are the performances and attitude we will witness. One thing the new signings clearly don't appear to have brought is the patented lazy, slapdash, don't give a toss Watford attitude, and on top of that, I just don't see a Roy Hodgson team going out and producing a performance of the type we have suffered in probably half or more of the games we've been treated to so far this season.

It's very, very possible that we will go down from this position purely down to lack of requisite quality, meshed with a lack of time and experience for the preferred team of a third coach of the season to develop the instinctive understanding that would see them both score goals and keep opposition teams out. But one thing I don't think we will do is go down in as unenjoyable and maddening a way as we have for the first half of the season. Even if the skill and football is 'worse' (and realistically, I'm not actually sure how much worse it could get, or how much better it has been up to now) I think we will see a team that more and more looks like they have some idea of what they are doing, with an at least requisite amount of effort put in by the majority of the players, the majority of the time.

Which will all make it twice as infuriating when we finally slip under the surface thanks purely to the individual mistakes of the gammer-cloggers we've been left with at the back

 

I think our hopes rely on Brentford and Leeds getting dragged into it

 

Absolutely not!

Appointing Ranieri will prove to be our Quique moment from our last relegation campaign. Totally the wrong decision and will ultimately cost us, which has to cost people their jobs higher up the chain!

Same mistakes over and over again! No investment in our defence (proper investment, not just cast offs from Udinese) just like last time we went down and it’ll be our undoing.

Heads need to roll.

 

Never understood this mentality. There is 1% chance that Pep Guardiola would be able to keep a team in the premier league with a defence of consisting of the likes of Bachman, Feminia,Ngakia, WTE, Cathcart, Masina, Rose

Seriously. No manager would have turned this around. The ship has holes in it, no captain steering it is going to save it

As a neutral, which of those names should be in the premier league? Our recruitment has been criminal. Our entire ******* defence consists of names that should be at mid table championship sides

 

Whilst I get where you’re coming from, Ranieri was clearly not the right choice for a relegation battle - look what happened at Fulham, very similar circumstances and the same result.

 

I was a lot happier with Ranieri than 90% of our previous appointments even in hindsight. I think the next manager poll on here most popular answer was "some unknown who had a good season in the azerbijan u12 league"

Ranieri is a fantastic bloke as well, if you can't get motivated for him as a player theres no hope

 

It's the hope that kills u and despite everything there is still hope. Newcastle's recruitment has been way worse than most people expected, what looks to some like pragmatism is really just a bizarre failure to sign more than 2 of their top targets. They couldnt even negotiate Lingard on loan. Brentford's Erikson signing is a huge gamble, it'll change the dressing room like Ronaldo at United and it could go either way. Given there are teams that could go down instead of us it's absolutely devastating that we failed to bring in the quality keeper and centre half we need. We are now reliant on Foster staying fit, Dennis snapping out of his AFCONless slump and Sarr returning in form plus Woy sorting out the defence. None of these things are impossible but all 4 at the same time would be a huge slice of good fortune.

 

I'm sure rumours will start to emerge, but there's something for me in the way that the first few games with Uncle Claudio, we actually played so much better. The press and work rate made us look competitive.

Then suddenly the whole strategy went out the window at the point where it should have started to deliver points.

Thereafter it was absolutely dismal.

 

Agree we did look good enough in enough games under Claudio that you have to wonder what went on. I know they’re having bad seasons but I don’t think you can beat Utd 4-1 and Everton 5-2 by accident. Plus for probably the first time since we got promoted initially, we actually looked semi-competent against City (the Danny Rose kamikaze sabotage performance aside). He certainly elevated us to significantly higher highs performance wise than Munoz did, unfortunately it all then unravelled very quickly. The highs were much higher but the lows (Norwich) were also much lower.

It seems our players don’t like games like Brentford when they have to get stuck in, but play better in games when the pressure is off and nothing is expected of them.

Ultimately our squad is poor, but they should’ve stuck with the first season QSF blue print. Solidity and pragmatism was what was needed from day one with such a weak squad, Hodgson would’ve been the ideal appointment from day one (type of appointment, not necessarily him as I doubt he would’ve taken it so soon after palace) not now when it’s probably far too late.

 

Absolutely right. The team was terrific against Man U and, in my view, even better against Chelsea despite the result, but I was at Brentford and the approach of the players to that game was baffling. At the time I thought Ranieri had to take much of the blame for it but I'm not so sure now.

 

Very hard to see us making up 8/9 points on them. Think it's three from the bottom four.

 

We do have 3 games in hand on them though to be fair. Probably means nothing as we are **** but it's not too unrealistic.

 

I don't see it that way. We have 3 games in hand and are 9 points behind. Assuming we pick up some points in those three games (Burnley a, Palace h, Wolves a) then we'll eat into that lead. We've still got to play them at home as well, which is another opportunity to gain 3 points on them. I think catching Brentford is very doable.

 

Well definitely go down, but realistically avoiding defat at Brentford and against Norwich would’ve given us a very decent chance of staying up.

 

Their is a glaring issue with this in that we’re **** and have won four games all season. We were all having these conversations before Brentford and Norwich, ooh if we win this then win that we’ll only be x many points behind.

It’s all very well having the games and saying we can win them, but to do so requires a monumental shift in the ability and performance of our team, almost overnight.

It’s worth remembering Roy lost his first three games in charge of palace, but he was taking over from game 4, not over half way through the season.

 

It can be done and I believe we can do it as we have made improvements in playing staff and management and also our terrible injury list is beginning to ease which is almost like more new signings.

 

Of course it can be done, anything can be done, but it’s a question of how likely it is to be done.

Having won four games all season sitting there and saying well, we’ve got three games in hand we could miraculously get loads of points from is just fantasy unfortunately.

If you’re 19th in the league, no clean sheets all season and just four wins you’d take points in the bag over games in hand every, single, time.

 

We will finish in last place, miles adrift of whatever terd is above us.

 

Yeah, it relies on two things - us suddenly vastly improving and Brentford collapsing. One of those could happen but very unlikely that both will (and I'd argue that Brentford collapsing would be the more likely!). If Brentford win three of their last fifteen games along with a few draws, their points total will be beyond us.

 

Brentford have the same consecutive run (Newcastle, Norwich, Burnley) coming up this month that we hoped to pick up significant points in. How they fare after those games and we’ve played Villa, Palace and Utd over the same period will show what hope is left

 

There's no point in this constant negativity. Not sure why so many fans have just given up. For me, there's a credible reason for optimism. I think we do have some real talent in the squad but it just needs organising and correctly coaching. I have faith Roy and Ray will do that. Just because he lost his first three at Palace, doesn't mean that will be replicated. It's not mandatory for Hodgson's teams to start off slowly.

Just because we've only won 4 all season doesn't mean we're down. Newcastle have only won 2 all season. Burnley have only won once all season. Norwich have only won 4. Everton, Leeds, Palace and Southampton have only won 5 all season.

I think we'll stay up, but it's going to be tough going. Plenty of positive vibes from fans is also required. What will be, will be, no matter what we think, so you may as well be positive rather than negative as it's a healthier state of mind to be in.

 

There is a big difference between negativity and realism, there is no basis for what you’re saying other than blind hope, but there is a significant body of evidence to support what I’m saying.

My realistic view on an Internet forum will also literally have no impact what so ever on our final league position. Same way as if I moan about the weather, it won’t change for me, you do know that right?

 

Have to agree, most fans are supportive of the team on a match day and even more so if they are playing well. (even if things are going badly it just goes dead quiet). I doubt the players care enough to read what us plebs think on here or social media so can't see the negativity away from the pitch having any real impact.

 

I disagree. There's no body of evidence to show how well Watford will play under Hodgson. He is likely to have a significantly positive impact (IMO). Add in returning players such as Sarr and Etebo. The impact of new players like Kalu, who is an unknown, Samir, Kamara and Kayembe. There are many indicators to suggest form will turn in a positive way.

Yes, that is an optimistic view, but until it all unfolds, why not be optimistic? It's easy pour cold water on everything, but just for variety I'm suggesting a more positive outlook is not unreasonable at this moment in time.

 

What are you trying to insinuate?

 

Precisely, I vent and moan on here but would always support team in person, but there are a couple of people on here who can never separate the two which is odd.

I get the benefits of positivity in your own life and I’m very much an optimistic and positive person when it comes to my own affairs, but I’m entitled to my opinion about our club on a medium that literally has no bearing on anything. I honestly don’t get the benefit of being anything other than realistic, we could win our games in hand, we almost probably won’t, I still really really hope we do though. It’s possible to think, believe and hope for different things all at once.

 

How on earth can there be evidence for something that is yet to happen?

I’ll stick to keeping a realistic view based on actual available evidence, whilst simultaneously supporting the team in person and hoping against expectation they can turn it around, but thanks anyway.