Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Ghost of Barry Endean, Jan 6, 2022.
Presumably you would willingly give up £3m+ if you didn’t have to?
A contract is between two parties. If Watford didn’t do their due-diligence on the player or put reasonable obligations for the player to abide by in the contract, that’s their problem. I don’t like it more than anyone else but that’s the scenario and the club shouldn’t be pointing fingers and washing their hands of something that is at least 50% their fault.
And if Rose is suffering with his mental health (which frankly I don’t think we should be speculating or talking flippantly about just because he’s a footballer), then in no way at all should the club let the fans know about that without the players permission.
I agree with the first paragraph. Watford are to 50% to blame.
Rose has clearly stated in media articles in the past about his struggles.
This is what l feel angers the fans. He signed a deal (why not) but he was never going to be able to fulfill the contract.
So? Him going public with past struggles doesn’t mean the club can talk openly about any current ones.
Mental Health is complex and can come and go in waves. You can fully recover and then replace years down the line.
There’s plenty of things we can criticise Rose for - past comments on not liking football, his performances, his fitness…just think it’s a bit crass for fans to speculate about his mental well-being.
What I will say is that Ranieri has been pretty open in saying he wants to help Rose find a club but won’t use him because he prefers a different profile. Ranieri is a decent guy and I don’t think he’d publicly say those things if Rose was suffering.
I completely understand that.
The frustration is with the lack of research by Watford. No clause or any caveats in his contract. Rose has sat on two previous contracts and it looks as Watford will be his third.
It is quite clear that every man and his dog knew of the struggles Rose has.
Rose states this in many media articles. This doesn't stop him from signing any new contract. You can only push your luck so far.
This is an ugly situation and no one looks good.
Once you have had mental episode, you are rarely the same person. Like driving a brand new car off the forecourt.
As you say, it can revisit you without warning.
I have a friend, a semi-pro centre half. He had some issues off the pitch. It became too much for him that during the first half of a game he asked to come off. Luckily the manager knew off his troubles. He never played that level again. He was 28.
Ok, we all know someone with issues. My point is that he knew in his mind he could concentrate, so he remove himself from that situation to seek advice and help. This is what l feel Rose should have done or should do now that he has signed a deal.
There are many avenues for help now.
I repeat myself by saying that no one comes out looking good from this.
Well, we've already paid up Deeney's contract so he could leave. And who could forget the genius move of deciding to extend an injured Daryl Janmaat's contract in the February of the relegation season only to pay him off in October without him ever getting fit? Laughably, Janmaat's contract ran until 2022, he would still have been on our books until the end of this season.
Rose isn't going anywhere, no-one will want to pay his wages. So we either pay him up the entirety of his contract now, a few months after we signed him or get him involved with the academy as he seemed to actually like that at Spurs. Or just use him as an extra cone in training, just like Raheem Sterling did when he ran past him to score a header a few weeks back.
I am sorry to read about your daughter.
It is a delicate topic, l accept that. I write without malice.
I can only go with the experience l have from working closely with one of our chefs. I know when he is struggling and we manage it as well as we can. We have always said that he must be upfront with us and he is. He is the first person to admit that he is not the same person he once was, but we are all different. He worries that he will never recover to his former self. It has been 10 years since his breakdown.
I accept we don't know what is happening behind closed doors. I would like to see Rose come out and tell us so we can try and understand.
My original point remains, l think Rose should resign or agree to the termination of his contract with no pay off. Let's see if he does this.
Agreed we were probably daft to sign him , however as we are not privy to what he might or might not have said during the negotiations that led up to us signing him, he could have easily given us assurances that he was really going to give his all to get back to being more the like the player he was.
Therefore in that scenario he could be blamed for reneging on his assurances and continuing to be the player he was when we signed him.
Tbf £3m is alot more money to you or I, than a Premier League footballer.
Can't see Rose being a good influence to academy players!
Is there actually any evidence to suggest that Danny Rose is a bad egg? All I've heard are positive things from his time with the youngsters at Tottenham, just because his heart doesn't seem to be in the playing side of things, I don't think that means that he's a particularly malign influence
Well either way you’re looking at 1-2 years pay for him, would you give up 2 years pay for no reason? It’s all relative.
That’s now how contracts work, again, if the club decided to sign an overweight player who hadn’t played for his previous club for 18 months and had been released by them, if the club were relying on verbal assurances from the player then more fool them.
Do you not remember the Harry Kane saga in the summer? He said Levy had given him verbal assurances he could leave, well it wasn’t in his contract so wasn’t binding or worth a dime to anyone.
I just don't understand why, when he turned up looking like a beached whale on or before signing day, the club didn't insist on inserting some form of weight, speed and stamina criteria in the contract. That would enable them to sack him if he hadn't got himself "fit" after say 3 months. That seems really stupid if they didn't, what were they thinking ??
I basically said all that in my quote #149, so your point is
… fairly clear??
We all understand that.
I am sure that many fans feel that he should resign or have his contract terminated without a pay off.
Rose is a professional footballer, mental health aside, why is he in such poor condition? It appears that he is can not be bothered and wants to sit on his two year deal as many fans of Watford and others teams feared he would do.
He isn't playing, but he is playing us.
Not really. Most people need their pay to exist because they have no financial safety net.
All professional footballers who have had one good contract have enough money to never work again - unless they have been an idiot and just pissed it away.
Money is money, what’s he going to do for the rest of his life now to earn money? He’ll also have significant outgoings to match his salary, if you think a footballer will waive away £3/6m when he has absolutely no need to just because he’s earned a lot in his career I’m not sure what world you’re living in.
I am not saying he should / would give up the money. My point is it is not relative to most people, most of us are in a completely different financial position to PL footballers.
Well yes and no, he’ll have houses, cars, a lifestyle, kids in private school, kids he’ll want to be able to make financially secure for the rest of their lives, and then 40+ years of his own life he needs to think about. I’m not sympathising with him by the way, just saying it’s relative and having more money doesn’t make you any less greedy.
Messi must be significantly richer than Rose, he cried when he left Barcelona, he could’ve stayed if he played for free but funnily enough he went to one of the richest clubs in the world instead.
He could become a football pundit.
The difference between Need and Greed.
Let me be clear, Watford were stupid to give him the contract and he has every right to take it. It would be nice to know what he said about his commitment to get into the correct physical condition to play and earn the money he was offered.
My frustration with him is his apparent lack of effort to get into a condition to play well, rather than whatever money WFC are giving him.
Moot point - but Messi couldn’t stay for free, as Spainish law forbids it for financial manipulation reasons. You have to get at least 50% of your previous salary.
As you were.
Maybe. I just think if Rose see's playing football as a chore, he probably isn't the right guy to encourage younger players to work hard to achieve their potential.
Rose has had an excellent Watford career across his two spells, I think below was the pick of his highlights:
I genuinely forgot this fat blob had played for us before.
He has and he was worse then. How old is this forum?
Not everything is the owners fault. He is not fit for purpose (so not available for selection) though which is down to him, not the owners. He's had plenty of time to get fit but against City who just looked like he couldn't be bothered.
But it’s not just ‘down to him’ is it? If the club can’t motivate him to get into shape, why not?
I agree that Rose has been incredibly unprofessional and the burden of his current problems lie predominantly with him - but you are essentially saying there’s no point in scouting or doing due-diligence on anyone because they can behave how they want when they arrive?
The owner gave him a 2yr contract and he’s not fit for purpose after less than 6 months. You can’t absolve the owner for that.
Self motivation and professional pride should come in to it. I'm not saying it's all his fault but there comes a point where the player has to take the bull by the horns and actually attempt to get himself fit enough to play at the level required. There is only so much the club can do in regard to diet, training regime etc. If the player ignores this then not sure what else we can do. In hindsight it's a poor signing and I'm sure many will point out they said this at the time but he was a good player and 31 is really not that old. If I turned up unfit for work due to my own negligence then I would be put through disciplinary procedures so maybe we should do that with Rose.
An absolute waste of space but I imagine the conversations were had before the contract was signed around getting fit and his mental health. I know you like a punt but this is another one but unfortunately it hasn't worked. Nobody has any idea how much he gets a week but I would be surprised if it was as much as some are quoting on here
The club saw what state of fitness he was in and chose to give him a 2 year deal with no caveats. The fact he still isn’t fit to play is mainly on Rose. The financial loss we are going to take in terms of 2 years of high salary is firmly on the owners.
Cathcart and Kabasele aren’t fit for purpose at premier level either due to different reasons. Not their fault (declining talent and injury) but again the fact they were both given ludicrous unnecessary contract extensions is all one the owners.
You know I like a punt? I’ve been the one exclusively ridiculing us always taking punts!
And I don’t disagree with anything else you have said there. But your earlier post suggested the owner wasn’t at fault. Which I do disagree with for the reasons I gave.
Okay Gino doesn’t have a boss - but if I interview and hire someone at work to undertake a 2yr contract, and have to remove that person because they aren’t fit for purpose after less than 6 months, but have to continue to pay that person? Yes, I would be speaking to that person and asking them why they haven’t performed remotely adequately. But I’d also be expecting my boss to come to me and ask why he was hired etc? I’m partially to blame.
So is Gino. It’s a shame he doesn’t have someone to answer to over a lot of these ‘missteps’.
*cough cough* “exclusively”?