Not really, just adding context, or a wider point of view, as one would in a conversation. Feel free to agree or disagree! You raised the point of the contract length being a factor, which is what I was replying to. If you just want a counter-point to your view, I don't think Bachmann was *that* bad. Not great, probably not worthy of a five-year contract based on his performances, but the root of all ills for a failing on-field operation?* Also not really. *I know you didn't make this point.
While players contracts and fees aren’t their fault they will always end up being factored into assessments of how “good” or otherwise they were for a club. If Andre Gray and Bayo had been one year loan stints I don’t anyone would mention them with such disdain or annoyance! Bachman’s 5 year and captaincy fanfare did the same for him for sure. One thing i would disagree with you, I think Bachman’s impact on the rest of the team was catastrophic in terms of being erratic, indecisive and shouting in their faces. I think it was impossible to move forward with him as first choice. Selvik worth at least 10 points over a season in my view.
When handing out contract extension the club should surely be basing things on what they’re seeing day to day with their own eyes. Yes Bachmann got called up for Austria, stunk the place out and made a few high profile errors at the Euros. There was also that Man Utd interest, most likely just agent talk. He never looked like a great keeper, fair enough flog him to someone daft enough to buy him but no need to lock him up on a 5 year deal based on what you think other people might think of him.
Yep, I definitely agree with your point that contracts and fees influence how supporters assess players, and always have done, but that's not the player's fault. Even Gray didn't ask to be sold for 18mil, or whatever it was. And some of Bachmann's erratic play, weird injuries, questionable attitude at times, and the way he shouted at his teammates definitely looked bad. He wasn't an easy keeper to like because he often made the game about him. Selvik is a far 'quieter' goalkeeper, his mistakes much less showy. But if Selvik is worth 10 points over a season how do we square the fact that the team's results this season were better with Bachmann in goal and Selvik's spell in between the posts coincided with form falling off a cliff? How much do we hold the goalkeeper accountable for the overall team's results and performances because if Selvik gets a pass for the last third of the season, Bachmann must get some credit for the first third? Obviously there's more to it than pure results because the rest of the team fell off a cliff too. Points per game this season: Bachmann: 22 games, 1.41 ppg Bond: 8 games, 1.25 ppg Selvik: 16 games, 1ppg An imprecise comparison but I think it's a stretch, at the moment, to say – based on the evidence so far – that Selvik is points in the bank over a season. Perhaps we need to wait and see how he gets on in a team that's performing better overall.
A few sweeping statements here. I get why. There’s no doubt that Selvik has been a breath of fresh air in terms of the calm that he brings to the team, and his overall attitude and more rounded game. Yes, relatively recent Watford goalkeepers did set high standards. Gomes was great in my eyes, in terms of ability and attitude. And I believe we had Foster at the peak of his game for 1-2 seasons. But when the latter started to show some signs of deterioration, and extreme distraction with his annoying little videos, Bachman was the preferred choice in many people’s eyes, including head coaches. He did play a part in a fairly convincing promotion season, with some impressive performances and clean sheets. But ironically it was during that period, when the crowds were not in the stadium and you could hear him bellowing ‘AWAY! AWAY!’ That was when my own opinion of him dropped. I’m no professional footballer, but I’m certain that goalkeepers can communicate with teammates in a better way than that. I always thought that noise would only make the opposition more confident, and your own team less so. In fact, his on field communication was so one-dimensional (from the little that I know), that I thought it was a miracle our defence didn’t crumble more often. I guess they just tuned it out.
Georgi, perhaps – although he was running of fumes much of the time it seemed to me. Baah's impact per minute was incredible but he only made 9 starts before Christmas, most of his appearances were off the bench. So it's probably a bit trickier to pin down – not that I am for a moment saying that Bachmann was the key to our encouraging start, just that if GKs are responsible for the points the team get then that has to applied to all GKs not just the ones that the supporters like!
I think we heavily outperformed XG earlier in the season and that compared with our attacking output being so woeful second half of the season is enough to explain if for me. I think half season is small enough sample for there to be abnormal outcomes sometimes.
Yes our xG was actually lower than Luton apparently. Also acceding to some we actually looked better defensively in the the second half but lost more times obviously. Not sure what that says about those sorts of stats ! Basically we weren’t that good all season maybe and got lucky at times ? Certainly not worthy of the owners claims we have a talented squad or that Cleverley did an outstanding job .
He was (is) a decent shot stopper, poor at commanding his box and a box of nerves for his fellow defenders. He is low/mid champ standard overall at a time we were hoping for promotion. The 5 year deal was crazy as was the appointment as captain. Selvik is much better so just hope we can hold onto him and get a fee of some sort for Bachmann though we ain’t seen nothin’ yet to suggest anyone will bid for him.
Bit of an odd stat to choose to support a point when there are very obvious individual stats for keepers that will do a better job of it for you than trying to conflate about a thousand moving parts with how good the keeper is. Namely Selvik kept more clean sheets in fewer games and let in fewer/less goals per game than Bachman:
I think the stats show that luck and confidence plays a huge part in results in this league. Coventry should have been in the top 5 based on xG when Robbins was sacked with them close to the bottom. Frank arrives, their performances don’t change but the results do and he is a hero.
Well, it was a stat provided to demonstrate that the point originally made – which was that Selvik is worth points – doesn't necessarily stack up. Like most things, you sometimes have to see the context of points made in multiple posts by multiple contributors rather than just isolate one of them!
What is it about letting in less goals and keeping more clean sheets makes you think it wouldn’t be worth more points across a whole season? Surely the most logical conclusion from your stats is that we would’ve had an even worse season with Bachmann in goal the whole time?
The most damning stat is that Selvik prevented 5.4 goals in his 16 games (one of the very best in tbe league on a per 90 basis) whereas in 21 games, Bachmann was close to zero, so if Selvik is noticeably better at what has traditionally been Bachmann’s only strength, what does Bachmann have going for him?
Did we really give away that many chances when he came in ? Thought we actually did better in that regard but maybe was just down to good keeping (error v Portsmouth apart )
We did have a better defence in front of him, but how many chances did Selvik prevent simply by not being glued to his line when a cross came in? Made one save of any note in the derby, but he was so crucial against a team that had no tactic other than holding it towards their big men
There’s probably no stats that demonstrate the difference in level of confidence a keeper projects to his team mates, but it was noticeable that our entire defensive unit looked calmer and more coherent when Selvik played. It seemed clear to me that the defenders had absolutely no confidence in Bachmann to command his box and deal with danger. He’s a liability and beside a solid half-season under Xisco, has basically always been.
Foster had a strange season that season, he started off in superb form, we’d have got battered away to Wycombe if not for him, then he started doing odd things like getting beat by headers from 25 yards, Bachmann in comparison was steady which seemed to suit us just fine
The number of times he could be seen standing behind his own line while the ball pinged around his 6 yard box was just embarrassing. Such a timid keeper.
Yep. At any level of football you would want your keeper to dominate his area even if this means he clatters into you when dealing with the ball .
Bachman rarely commands his own 6 yard box, let alone his 18 yard box... The other side is you don't want a keeper to be coming out for everything and regularly missing it. Which Bachman obviously doesn't so on occasion he's inadvertently done the right thing. And sometimes he's been man of the match. My overriding memory of him will be getting a red card after going up for a corner. He needs to leave really.
He'll be very lucky to get another Championship club, all of which have probably spotted his weaknesses when playing against us. Not sure his ego will let him drop to League One, maybe he'll be moving abroad.
Going to Norwich apparently. If any Norwich fans are reading this, you are getting an absolute bargain, an excellent signing
Can't believe we'd sell him to a promotion rival? Surely a lie? No way we'd allow a team who will be there or thereabouts come May to steal a march on us by signing our excellent, reliable keeper who's also our club captain. Surely not! No chance!
We'll need to make sure we don't play any big tough strikers or sling any crosses or corners into the box when we play them. No siree, that would be meat and drink to Dan the Man.
Makes you wonder how you beat him, when his shot stopping and temperament are both also without fault. Maybe he's just unbeatable?
I guess you just have to hope for those one in a million freak moments where an inferior team mate puts his clean sheet in danger. Dan would set them straight of course. He has such high standards - mistakes simply aren't accepted on his watch. And he's outstanding at identifying the culprit.
Need to make sure we insert a sell-on clause so we at least get a small cut when he joins Real Madrid.
I'm pretty clear on the respective merits of Bachmann v Selvik, recognising that basic goalkeeping stats can sometimes be misleading (all sorts of variables come into play, depends on the opposition faced, depends on the defensive line-ups they had in front of them etc, etc). A simple look at how each of them (among other things) control and encourage their defences, passing out from goal kicks/back passes, the positioning they take for set pieces, anticipating and collecting crosses or shots and dealing with 1 v 1s when the opposition break through. Fair to say Selvik has demonstrated a competence and calmness at a level way above that of Bachmann this season in his Watford appearances. The latter is renowned for his dealing with 1 v 1s and penalty saves and Selvik is, at worst, his equal for 1 v 1s although yet to save a pen. No contest.