Core For Next Season

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcSinatra, Mar 4, 2023.

  1. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    I’m hearing a lot of people saying they won’t mind not going up and let’s build a side etc, I don’t know the financial implications but it seems a risky desire but one that is looking ever more likely. However; the scary thing is, stay here or go up, both outcomes actually leave us requiring A LOT of surgery.

    Safe to assume Sarr & Pedro will be gone of course but what would be your core of players you’d build around?

    I’d say:

    Porteous
    Hoedt
    Kone
    Asprilla
    Ferreira

    That is literally it! Louza could stay if so, i’d add him and Morris is passable as back up left back other than that we still need six players as an absolute bare minimum.

    New number 1
    New number 9
    New wingers
    New left back

    Isn’t going up an easier rebuild job than staying in this division?
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  2. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I reckon Kone goes through the escape hatch to Udinese too. Doesn’t seem massively suited to the division and suspect he signed on a promise.
     
    With A Smile likes this.
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Pedro and Louza. The rest I’m not too fussed about.
     
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Well Pedro definitely won’t be here !

    I’d say certain to be here are :

    Bachmann
    Morris
    Hoedt
    Asprilla
    Sema
    Ferreira

    Least you will get some effort from them but will really be looking for some decent midfielders and strikers .
     
  5. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    In truth, the majority of what we’ve seen this season will still be here, minus anyone we can get a fee for, which aren’t many.

    Gino has almost taken us full circle in 11 years. This time next year we could have a similar squad to the one he inherited from Bassini.
     
  6. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Bachmann, Sarr, Davis, Assombalonga, Gaspar, Kamara and loads of others need to be shipped out. The only player I’ll be sad to see go is Pedro. I wouldn’t mind us keeping hold of Louza if we can.

    New keeper, new full backs, new winger and a striker who can score goals all required just for the starting 11.
     
  7. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Forgot Sema

    Okay so:

    Asprilla - 9 - Sema

    Kone - New CM

    New LB Hoedt Porteous Ferreira

    New GK

    We might be here for a while it’s starting to look like, astounded how we’ve got here I thought we’d be fine!
     
  8. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Bachmann will go or he should be sold or be given a free transfer.
    I have never been a fan if his for a number of years and now many fans are seeing the very same faults that he has always had.
    If you look up "Away" in a dictionary, you see the name Bachmann.

    How many seasons have the fans highlighted the need for wholesale changes to the squad? All of them have landed on deaf ears in the boardroom.
    What has changed to make us feel that this summer will be any different than the previous seasons?
    The majority of the squad should be shown the door, contract or not.

    Lack of belief from the fans, very mediocre players still with the club and massive debts will be our prize next season unless the club has a clear, valued plan both on the pitch and off the pitch

    Right now, we are in a real mess.
    This has to change, but it takes time. The problem is that we rarely give time to any coach or manager.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2023
  9. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Goalkeeper: In all honesty, we could find a better keeper, but with the massive surgery necessary on the rest of the squad, and with funds more than likely tight, I don't think an upgrade in goal is a priority. I'd be tempted to start next season with Okoye, he's clearly a talented keeper but hasn't had any sort of run of games to show his ability

    R(W)B: Ferreira is probably first choice when everyone is fit, and is the only one who looks like he'd be good as a wingback if we are to play with a back 3. The jury is out on him, but I'm keen to give him a proper run in the team when he's fit. After a tricky start, Gaspar has been useful (in midfield too), I'd sell Ngakia who hasn't kicked on for whatever we can get

    CB: I like Porteous, not overly sold on Hoedt, but I think the two of them are better than what we had before. With funds likely to be tight, I'd give Cathcart a year extension, and we're looking OK there at this level. Kabasele will stick around for another year, have a feeling Sierralta might leave as he could probably do with a fresh start, which might open the door for Pollock to play more of a role here

    L(W)B: Kamara is obviously going 'back' to Udinese (which won't be much of a loss, which I didn't think I'd be saying at the start of the season), Morris has been a pleasant surprise, although we need more than just one LB if we are going to play a back 4 (obviously if we play a back 3, Sema can play there, but I'm not convinced Morris will be particularly good as a wing-back)

    CM: Choudhury will be gone obviously, which will be a big miss
    Louza hasn't really done as much as we would have hoped in the few games he's been available for, a bit like a midfield Sarr, he's had some telling contributions and some absolutely anonymous games, but still, the financial situation means that we'll have to sell, and if we don't make enough money, he might be off (possibly to Udinese)

    Asprilla--so so talented, but considering he doesn't really do anything defensively, could be considered a bit of a luxury player? Might need the right system to thrive (hypothetically if we continued with this current system could he be the JP replacement?), but I think next season he could be an absolute star...if he doesn't get sold (and if I were him, I'd be banging on the door to leave)

    Kone: Still very raw, but I've been impressed with him for someone who's only been a professional for about a year, another year should see him develop. Our best bet of the current to replace Choudhury

    Kayembe: Still wouldn't want him playing too big a role, but could be useful as a backup, has largely been pretty mediocre, but has had some storming games (Boro and the derby spring to mind). Has a pretty serious injury at the moment though, and with our medical team, that's probably his career over!

    TDB: I feel we've said this so many times before, but if he can just get over his injury, he can come back and play a role for us. A strange one as he didn't appear to be a crock last season at Reading (unless I'm misremembering), but he's had some horrendous misfortune for us

    Bacuna: just contracted until the end of the season isn't he? Should go, but it wouldn't surprise me if we extended his deal just to get numbers in midfield for cheap like we did when we signed him in the winter

    Gosling and Cleverley: surely coming towards the end of the road, Cleverley is surely ready for the glue factory, a bit of a shame for Gosling as he was pretty useful at RB at the time, but at his age I don't think it's worth seeing if he can recover from his injury

    Quina: sell for whatever pennies we can get for him

    JP: Surely the first out the door, a matter of how much we can get for him, we'll probably have to scale down our expectations next season so we might be lucky to get £20-25m for him even though he's had a decent season

    Wingers:

    Sarr: Seeya! Just a matter of how much we can get for him, probably about £15m in this current climate

    Sema is very useful at this level, he'll probably be one of our most important players next season, either at LW or LWB

    Kalu: Had some bright cameos off the bench, but no more than that, and been pretty ineffective when starting games, though I fear he might be a starter next season

    Hungbo: Had a really good game for Huddersfield against Birmingham, but haven't heard much else about him. Possibly a starter next season, although I couldn't tell you if that's a good thing or not

    Pussetto (yes he's still ours!): sell for whatever we can get (I think the club he's at have an option to buy, but I'm not sure)

    Baah: Not sure if he's any good, but we've royally ****ed him over, probably loan out to League 1
    Strikers: Davis and Araujo are obviously off, which nobody will be crying about

    Bayo is a weird one, because, despite not looking like a footballer at times, he's come up with some really important contributions this season. That said, he's been sidelined by two managers, both of whom preferred Manaj when he was fit, and to loan him out shows he probably doesn't have much of a future here, unless we scale back our expectations greatly or we can't get a decent fee for him (not £5m of course, who would pay that for him?!)

    Fletcher: belatedly showing some use on loan at Wigan, ditto Bayo really

    If we continue to use a variation of 4-3-3, I'd say we need another LB, one or two midfielders at least (if Louza and Asprilla don't go) for depth in midfield, a starting right-winger and a left-winger for depth, and at least one striker

    3-4-3: 2 LWBs, 1 RWB
    Ditto the midfield
    1LW 1RW
    1 striker

    3-5-2:
    1LWB, 1RWB
    Ditto the midfield
    1/2 strikers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2023
  10. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I completely forgot about Assombalonga! I'd keep Gaspar formation permitting, I think he's shown enough that he can be a useful squad member (at both RB and CM)
     
  11. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Hope you don't mind but I edited your post to make it a bit easier to read. Fantastic post and lots of great insight and information.
     
  12. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Wasn't there talk when we signed him that he'd be off to Udinese in the summer? Quite like him, I think his main weakness at the moment is decision making which should come with time, not sure he's exceptionally unsuited to this division
     
  13. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Not at all, I didn't realise my post was that long! I wouldn't say it's especially insightful, I'm just saying what I'm sure a lot of others would say on here (though I'm sure some might disagree with me on some players!)
     
  14. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Hungbo & Pollock starting? Kill me now.
     
  15. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Well I don't see a scenario where Pollock is a starter for us next season (barring a hilarious injury crisis), but Hungbo might be if we truly are up **** creek financially. I'm sure we can get someone better on loan though if we really are ****ed
     
  16. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Like this season?
    The Don's fans seem to like Matty so far.
     
  17. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    Based on this season as a stand alone I can't see anyone buying Sarr.
     
  18. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Luckily most see us a mess of a club and Sarr has enough of an individual highlight reel for a club to still risk £20m on him.

    Also, he’s really not that bad, 15 goal contributions this season in a team that hasn’t been able to attack for half a season and has given minutes to the likes of Manaj, Bayo & Adeyemo.

    I haven’t checked but I reckon 15 is probably close to top ten in the league, he’s also likely to end on double figures in both goal contributions categories, I doubt more than 10 players will do that in the div this season.
     
  19. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    Further to my last comment, yesterday I commenting that Sarr reminds me of Gabriel Ablonlahor, not his brief loan spell with us in 2005/06 but in general he was fast and considered "one for the future". Once his pace was gone people realised there wasn't much else to his game. And we have Sarr, I don't know whether it's a confidence thing but when not using his pace I think he his average at best, so as he gets older and has no pace he will be just another bang average player.
     
  20. Harrybassetthater

    Harrybassetthater Academy Graduate

    First time I’d seen Hoedt yesterday and thought he had a good game.
     
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  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Not a bad player .

    Maybe gets caught out a bit but certainly knows how to defend.

    Had a good effort on goal too which is more than most did !
     
  22. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    He's joint 10th according to FBRef for goals + assists - my question to you would be how many of that list are likely to go for £20m+ based on their season in the Championship, let alone the ones skirting the bottom of that particular barrel?

    I do appreciate your point in terms of the way our club being seen probably helping, if anything, in a similar way to the effect it has on head coaches neither being put off coming here nor getting work subsequently because it's a perceived free hit.

    My caveat to that, though, in combination with his naked production stats, would be that surely any of the clubs with the money and requirements to pay that kind of money for a player employ scouting operations sophisticated enough to analyse his contribution throughout games over the course of an entire season, rather than just looking at a couple of the more eye-catching columns on a stats chart? In 2023, I'd still be pretty surprised if teams were casting about in the dark to that extent.

    Then again, football is a constantly surprising/baffling game.
     
  23. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I wouldn't include Ferreira and not sure Asprilla is up to being part of a 'core' just yet.

    Our squad is so ****.
     
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    He turns 54 in the summer
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  25. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    None of what you've said justifies 20m.

    What you've just outlined is a 6-10m player, which is what he is.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  26. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    And clubs can sign him for nothing January 2024. Highly unlikely anyone makes a £20m bid. Reckon we will hold out till near deadline day and end up taking £12m plus maybe a few addons.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  27. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    He has in the past been a good player, I seek to remember when we first signed him he was actually threatening (as opposed to just popping up with goals and assists from time to time and little else), I think our only hope is that other clubs see us and think that we're such a mess that his current struggles are resolvable
     
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I disagree with this - he's only 20 and I think he's already shown a decent level of improvement in just the couple of months he's been here already. In another season or two I think he has a chance of being a very good player at this level.

    Also, it's not as if playing in the Championship while he develops will be much of a barrier to his career - Junior Hoilett is still a regular in the Canada national team despite playing in the Championship for instance, and also having grown up in Canada he may have more of a wish to be successful in English football than Italian.

    I don't think he'd be too difficult to replace if he did leave, mind.
     
  29. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    You win nothing with kids.
     
    Klein Lust likes this.
  30. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    We've said this for years and end up in a continual cycle of getting worse. We replaced Dennis & Cucho with Bayo and Manaj.
     
    miked2006, wfcmoog and wfc4ever like this.
  31. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Which is what was supposed to happen under Edwards with younger hungrier players and prior to that the last time we went up? Lasted 10 games and like you say we now find ourselves in this situation where a major rebuild is on the cards irrespective of promotion.

    In terms of players who at the moment will still also be under contract with us next season, you can also add to that list Sierralta and Kabs who are both contracted until the end of next season. Kalu, Kayembe, TDB, Bayo and Fletcher will also be here next season unless, again, we sell or loan them out. Likewise we have youngsters like Morris, Pollock, Hungbo, Ngakia, Baah, Quina and maybe a couple from the youth team like Greaves and Adeyemo.

    Wouldnt be surprised if keep Louza and possibly even one from JP/Sarr depending on how much we get for selling the first one. Would have thought Sarr is definately off and JP has a long contract so maybe hey keep him for a nother season. Sema's contract expires in June and not sure we will be in a position (or would want to) to extend it. Is Britt only contracted until the end of the season?


    Putting it all together (players in bold likely core of next seasons squad as it stands) -

    GK - Bachmann, Okoye, Hamer

    RB - Ferreira, Ngakia

    LB - Morris

    CB - Porteous, Hoedt, Sierralta, Kabs, Pollock

    Mid - Louza, Kayembe, Kone, TDB, Asprilla, Quina,

    Wingers - Hungbo, Kalu, Baah

    Strikers - JP, Fletcher, Bayo

    Pretty bleak looking and thats with JP/Louza. I would expect some of the dead wood like Quina to be farmed out again and can see us trying to offload some of the players who would only have a year left on their contracts like Bachmann and Kabs. Havent included Pussetto as he wont be here. Wouldnt be surprised if we see Martins return again for next season.
     
    Klein Lust likes this.
  32. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Yeah but we've got Manga now.
     
    wfcSinatra likes this.
  33. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    That's more than good enough for this ****** league.
     
  34. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    We might not get what we want for JP and Sarr, but I still imagine we'll get 8 figures for both of them (let's say £15m for Sarr and about £20m for JP give or take), we're not in a position to turn that down. We might see Martins back, although probably because he's not impressed here enough to get in the Udinese team
     
  35. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's Okoye.
     

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