While we’re were an established prem club there was always more chance of building something over the course of a few seasons, as the prem money made staying up a naturally attractive target for Gino. Of course it still didn’t stop him getting greedy with players like Saar, or neglecting our defence, but there was a at least a bit more resolve to hold on to some players for a bit longer, least not just to get a bit more in transfer fees. Now we’re back in the championship and the Udinese tap has dried up, there is no realistic route to promotion without splashing some cash. The fact we flipped Bayo to Udinese for supposedly a £10m profit and didn't invest that money in the squad tells you everything you need to know. That’s our advantage right there, that’s the new version of loaning higher quality players from Udinese - selling our players to them for a higher margin to exploit an FFP loophole so we can outspend our rivals, but no, that’s not what we did, because that sadly isn’t the aim. There is no plan, the owner hasn’t done a complete 180 and decided to focus on building a team and backing a certain manager with a certain philosophy, there is no ‘transition season’ Cleverly won’t be given four years to build. It will be like this every season while Gino is the owner, and the person in the dugout will be incidental.
I suspect in Gino's mind, that Bayat is an alternative to Udinese as he's an agent that he can go to and ask for players, same as going to Daddy and asking for Udinese players. What he fails to see is that Bayat is a Del Boy type who deals in shoddy goods.
And that for every Bayat ‘gem’ we do turn up, we have to go through 20 overpriced duds to get there, so the net return is way, way below just looking for good players who will improve your team.
Not 4 years, 4 windows, 4 transfer windows - 2years .... appreciate this, given our owners, is also a romantic notion - but not 4 years and a gold watch for long service !!
Keep TC and back him in the window with some decent loans. We have replaced managers before about a trillion times, and it never works in the long run.
When we appointed him, most of us said “he’s new to this, he’s a rookie, he will make (what we perceive to be) mistakes” Seems a bit unfair to then over-criticise him when he does. He’s made decisions that haven’t worked or seemed right (re-calling Bachmann, going all out to sign Jebbison and nobody else to play as a 9 etc), but he’s also got a lot right too. We’ve beaten the current league leaders, looked unstoppable at home, won two matches too in a competition that’s usually an embarrassment to us. He’s coaching the likes of Baah and Pollock to levels we couldn’t have realistically imagined a few months ago. Not great but not bad. The coming matches will be so important though to shaping the whole season, and maybe how history will eventually judge him as our manager.
Well he is setting himself and the team a high bar which I suppose shows they want to do well from their point of view but can look rather unrealistic too. https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/s...ternational-break-says-clevs/#comments-anchor
Xisco, even after 2-3 games was very clearly a vibes manager who did not / could not instill a clear style of play or strong personality and relied on the players to come up with moments of magic than putting a cohesive system together. That unlikely run to promotion as much due to WTE leadership / captaincy (And Deeney getting injured / dropped) which happened to put the team together in a cohesive manner and Xisco putting round pegs in round holes as a result. Cleverley does seem to have a strong idea of what he wants, how he wants to play and what player roles he needs which the club have generally provided. He's made some howlers selection wise (Bachmann injury, Sissoko / TDB pairing, Jebbison) but he's also done good with getting Baah out of the cold and as a very bright player who is getting better by the game and converting Morris to an LCB which he's been steady and Cleverley deserves credit for that.
Agree with the first para here in its entirety, but Morris has averagely survived at best, except for the times that he hasn't. That just doesn't have quite as much of a light shone on it as could/should be, because everyone he's playing alongside is also regularly capable of ridiculous howlers resulting in mass unreliability!
Which is more a reflection of the squad quality as a whole than Cleverley's setup. The fact that Tikvic and Almeida both are non-factors already limited his pool available at the time (Pollock, Sierralta, Porteous and Tikvic were the only available recognised senior CB's when we played Millwall game with Hoedt unavailable and to be sold, Ogbonna yet to be signed and Keben not yet signed / injured. Tikvic was not on the bench) forced Cleverley to try Morris there to give himself viable options. It's a reflection of Morris' ability to adapt and Cleverley recognising he could do a job there that he's a respectable squad option there. The development Pollock has had under Cleverley is arguably his biggest plus point and cannot be ignored either. It's no confidence some of our younger players who had potential but hadn't gone to the next level have started to under a coach who has been in the same situation in his own playing days, understanding the value of training and getting minutes in the Championship to develop his ability and career.
Absolutely agree in the case of Pollock, but my point on Morris is basically that I do not believe he is a respectable squad option there, so I'm not sure of any credit deserved for him.
I've probably jinxed it but how can we look fairly solid defensive wise at hoe and be a right old mess on the road? I mean is that just luck or down to management and organisation.
It's more of a case of visiting teams not finishing their chances. We are by no means a solid unit at the Vic. Look at the Middlesbrough game, they had lots of chances to go two or three up but blew it and we managed to punish them in the end. We are going to really struggle at home if a team goes 2-0 up, because it seems to take an age for us to get going in games (home and away), and despite all the 'vibes' from TC, we are still starting games at a snails pace where as other sides come at us from the off.
Quite right, but I think an even better example was the Coventry game. We could easily have been 4-0 down by half time if they had finished more of their chances. I think they looked the best team we’ve seen at home this season, so I’m surprised to see them so low in the table - I don’t know what’s happened to them since then.
The Venn diagram between forum posters who moan about Pozzo sacking managers has a big overlay with the same posters discussing TC being sacked .
Mattie Pollock has to go down as a real success story under Cleverley. Vastly improved and arguably a future Watford captain.
Agreed. Plenty of signs of improvement which is a positive sign - Pollock, Kayembe, Morris all noticeably better.
There are some confusing views on here . Pre season most people had us down as odds on to be bottom 6 or relegation candidates. We’ve had a great start ,despite a flawed squad , some real positives and because we haven’t dominated every match, playing champagne football despite playing against some decent opposition, we should be thinking about sacking Cleverly? Yes, Luton was a massive low but apart that it’s generally positive and one of the things he has definitely shown in at least some of the matches is an ability to make changes to effect the match. I don’t think we have seen too much of that under recent managers . I’m not saying he’s the second coming of GT but he needs to be given a chance to learn and grow . What is the alternative ?
Not sure that's much of a skill these days given managers can sub half the outfield players in a game if they want!
I wouldn't pay too much attention to a bunch of weirdos (myself included) still using a football forum in 2024 with ~50 active users
I agree re: Kayembe but to be honest, and I think it's just a personal thing, I've never really rated Morris. He's been steady at best when he has played but I don't think he's a long term solution for me.
