Cleverley & Cathcart - Enough Is Enough

Good solid pros.

 

Both been ‘steady’ and repeatedly ‘do the business’.

 

ThE sTaBiLiTy.

 

So many ageist comments on here.

 

Actually, Cathcart never made a first team appearance for them.

 

Come on, it’s no wonder people get infuriated by them. Pozzo has signed countless players over the years and yet here they are starting week in, week out, years past the time when they were average premier league players. They are the flashing in front of your eyes evidence of our dreadful recruitment and refusal to engage in any strategic squad planning.

I agree that they are simply a symptom of the Pozzo disease that has contaminated the fibres of our club, and in that respect it isn’t their fault. That said while they are drawing good wages they still need to be accountable for their own performances. Yesterday was miles below what is acceptable from them, even acknowledging their significant limitations.

 

I agree with every word of this, and have said so above, and in other threads.

 

Cathcart should be fired for that ‘the crying is tomorrow’ comment. Absolute losers mentality that has no place in top level sport.

 

Yup. I'd far rather he went on Instagram like the others and put on a heartfelt (copy and past by a social media minion) "we will fight and give it everything until the very end".

 

Cleverley was turd yesterday, him and Dennis were as bad as each other.

 

I always look forward to another thread being added after a defeat. It's always pretty much straight after the final whistle as if they have these saved somewhere just waiting to spread their expertise on to the forum the minute we lose a game. Cleverly was terrible yesterday and how he stayed on the pitch but Louza was taken off was beyond stupide but that is Hodgsons fault. Catchart has been ok recently, MOM at Villa

 

It wasn't exactly Hodgson's fault he was terrible though was it? That's the point, he's not good enough anymore.

Do you ever disagree with anything Watford FC related? Or do you just get some sort of kick out of being the high and mighty one, patronising anyone who dares be upset at expressing an opinion that's not favourable on the club?

 

According to Opta, Cathcart was our 8th best player against Villa.

 

It is Hodgson's fault he stayed on the pitch for so long, it's Hodgson's fault he picked him. I disagree with plenty to do with the club but I also try to see both sides of the coin. Every time we lose another thread like this appears, that's not patronising, it's the truth. I'm sure somebody will point out it's a forum and everybody can say what they like but I don't find it enjoyable. What I find even more annoying is those coming on here saying that they've gone off to support another team and how much better everything is going to watch St Albans or Chesham United. Not sure what they are trying to achieve by posting that. It's obviously up to them what they do with their Saturday afternoons but not sure why they need to post it on here

 

According to Who scored, Ben Foster was the worst player on the pitch yesterday. Try not to give too much weight to those ratings.

 

He won MOM and I thought he played very well. There were not 7 players better than him on that day.

 

At least Dennis was trying to do something (often to the detriment of just playing an easy ball) - Cleverley was literally chasing shadows all day or giving the ball away when he was lucky enough to get it.

 

I'm sure they were both 'trying', but they were both crap.

 

This isn’t aimed at you but is a wider point - but why do you contribute then? I support the fact you do and think you should.

But this is the argument that’s thrown at people when they talk about boycotting games or simply voice their frustration at the club. ‘If you hate it, why do you watch/go?’ So the same can be said about people who moan at certain aspects of this forum no?

There are some highly negative voices on this forum, that’s for sure - but we don’t really ever read them saying they hate the forum because of all the people defending this, that and the other. They make their point, they stick to it and then argue about it - as is their right. But they rarely bemoan the forum for it happening.

I just don’t get the mileage in having a pop at the forum just because it isn’t maintained to a way that’s exactly to some sort of idealistic standard.

 

There is some good discussion on the forum as well as some funny comments which is why I frequent the place but I do find these sort of threads being posted each time we lose a little tiresome. I fully agree with some of what is said and Cleverly was truly awful yesterday but as mentioned earlier, Catchcart has been better since partnering with Samir yet has a poor game and gets a thread like this.

 

Surely the wider point stands about Cathcart though? A few half-decent efforts recently don’t really mask the bottom line with him.

 

Yep, that was already pointed out in the summer after the Cup final.

The Pozzos got complacent with their recruitment and and still have barely cottoned on that it keeps coming back to bite them.

In the first few seasons any underperforming players were replaced almost immediately until eventually a decent one was found; our team was as much of a revolving door as our managers.

 

Emotionally sure. You can pick whoever you want, but it’s obviously full of confirmation bias. I can’t even remember his performance against Villa, just like I can’t particularly remember Louza yesterday other than the long ball out of play that resulted in another Cathcart defensive masterpiece.

Same with Samir, he went all submarine yesterday and was hardly noticed but he’s equally at fault. Truth is, every defender we sign is terrible because we only sign terrible defenders.

 

We’ve conceded 50 goals this season. The defence has been neglected for years, of course it’s going to be the focus. We lose pretty much every week, should we be positive about that? We lose and we are mostly terrible with the odd bright spot which is always, always, pointed out.

We’ve have two main players who are clearly out of their depth. Cathcart and Cleverley. The rest tread water. The buck stops with the manager. Who reports to the owner. But that’s a road you don’t appear to want to go down.

 

I agree but credit where it's due, he had improved of late. That's not to say that this position has long been left unattended

 

I've said the person in charge of hiring managers should be sacked as it's farcical. All I've said on here is does it really need a new thread every time we lose

 

100% agree

 

That's fine but it's not as if someone is lambasting players who have been here for 3 months and have had their first bad game, we've seen this before.

Cleverley & Cathcart are two players from our last relegation who put in equally bad performances the last time this happened, in Cathcart's case he's facing a potential third relegation from The Championship. These players, slightly unfairly, have become symbols of bad Pozzo business with their contract extensions despite underwhelming performances.

The squad has gone stale and these two have been here underperforming for a while now, Cathcart does have the occasional great game sure, is there many worse starting centre backs than him in the Prem? I don't think so.

Perfectly reasonable to be annoyed by them and wonder why they are still here (without personal abuse may I add because both lads come across well)

 

The only worse CB in the PL than Cathcart is WTE.

 

Not exactly the same, was it? Deeney had clearly been told he wasn't going to start often if at all, whilst Cathcart & Cleverley have been told they'll get regular game time. If the coaching staff at the club say you're still good enough, not many people are going to disagree & say 'no, I'm crap, stop paying me the money.'

I can no longer defend their performances because they are clearly not of required EPL standard, but it's the club's fault they're still allowed to put in those performances.

 

Obviously, I'm not defending a single aspect of Pozzo defensive recruitment, but injury-aside that is rather a harsh and, dare I say it, unfair reckoning for Nkoulou! He's still not the sole 'answer' but his career to date and the clear impact he had in his tragi-comically short time with us so far still suggest he's our highest quality centre back, and doesn't have any real problem operating a Premier League (survival) level.

 

Mmm, I tend to fall on the side of it likely being the result of desperately rushing him in midseason without an actual pre-season after ingeniously deciding we'd be better off putting an empty space at centre back to him - historically he really isn't an injury-prone player.

 

What about the other 20 games where he's mostly been complete and utter turd?

It's amazing we can be as bad as we are, be second bottom of the league, not a single home win since November, concede as many goals as we do, make as many mistakes as we do, fail to do the basics as often as we do, and yet our fans will still try to leap to the defence of and look for excuses for the absolute dross we have at the back letting us down week in, week out.

It's both incredible and just weird, really.