Cleverley & Cathcart - Enough Is Enough

Someone tell me, tell me what the defence of these geriatric old clowns can possibly be at this point? Surely no one is going to continue to fight their corner any longer?

Cathcart effectively couldn't get anywhere near our team in the division below last season (because he's old and finished as a player and Xisco for all his flaws did at least get that), was crap in the 19/20 PL season and is about to play a huge part in us getting relegated again. There isn't a lack of any other choice at all either. Sierralta deserves far more of a chance than he's had - it's a bizarre myth that people have jumped on that he's been "terrible", he's barely played or been giving any run/chance to show what he's actually capable of a this level and, as I've said a thousand times now, was our best CB last season and the only one who might actually IMPROVE rather than decline like the majority of the rest of our OAP squad - and I'd 100% pick Kabasele over Crapfart too. Absolutely appalling for the first and third goals today. Just stands off, no pressure on the man or ball, arms behind the back and does NOTHING to stop the shot. Just let's them put it away. As per.

Cleverley is pathetic. His technical ability is embarrassing at this level and he's slower than a corpse both physically and mentally. He does nothing but desperately run around like a headless chicken giving away fouls and giving away the ball any time he tries anything more than a 10 yard sideways pass, although that is seemingly beyond him plenty of the time too.

Decent players back in their day, but their day is long gone, so **** me, just stop it now. Make it end. Literally just pick anyone else. It's unbearable.

 

I'm sorry to see that it upsets you so much.

 

Louza's pass should not have lead to what it did. It's our woeful defence switching off after that that's the issue, including Cathcart, for the second time in the game and 500th time overall, doing absolutely nothing to stop the shot.

 

Cathcart is just a coward. Never dives in to try and stop a shot, just sticks his hand behind his back and turns creating space for the attacker. Every time. Scared of the ball.

Same with how he just passes into touch when pressured and why he was subbed off after making that mistake allowing Shane Long to score after 6 seconds.

I don’t know if I blame him or not. He’s league 1 standard and has been for years. Just another player lucky enough to play for us in their advancing years.

I’d rather have WTE in and that says a lot.

 

If we go down, Cleverley and Cathcart will 100% be here next season. And starting games too most likely.

 

Another reason to pray we somehow stay up...

 

The defence will be that we can’t afford Rice and VVD. The difficulty with that argument is that we have spent money on players, but of you’re going to spend many on players, you may as well not bother if you’ve still got players like Cleverley and Cathcart in your team, it’s literally throwing the money down the drain.

Cleverley was such an obvious weak link today that it didn’t really matter what we did elsewhere, it was always going to be an uphill battle having such a poor player in a key position.

It’s one thing getting promoted, not spending a penny and then just relying on the players who got you there but knowing they aren’t good enough, it’s entirely another thing to strengthen the team elsewhere but leave yourself relying on such shockingly bad players. Total madness.

 

Still don't see what Kayembe has done massively wrong to be dropped for Cleverley?

Lost count of the amount of times Cleverley was too late to the ball or man, chasing shadows all game bless him.

 

For all that Alan Smith is a (literal) Ar5ewhipe, he quickly pointed out in the 1st half that he had no idea what Cleverley's role was and that maybe he ought to try to pick up Odegaard rather than leave his defence overrun.

 

Udinese fans warned us that after a while the Pozzos just end up doing the bare minimum to keep the team up. So when you see Cleverley and Cathcart still getting contract extensions you just look back to what they said and realise they are correct. Only difference is a lot less clubs stand still in this league than they do Italy. So it doesn't work here and we just fall behind.

 

Oh and geriatric old clowns is harsh. It's not their fault they've aged and aren't good enough anymore. They've been good servants to the club, it's not their fault our owners haven't tried to move on from them.

 

Correct. Both players have been good servants for the club, both conducted themselves well and I've never doubted their effort when they play. It's the poor recruitment at fault so not sure any personal abuse is necessary, in this case.

 

They don't deserve a pass for their now frequent, long term, terrible performances because of what they were in the past. Just the same as Deeney didn't.

If they're playing crap, letting the team down and making mistakes, as they have both been for long, long while, we're supposed to give them a break because "yeah, but they were pretty decent 5+ years ago"? No. They still have responsibility over their own performances and failings.

More than happy to keep taking the club's money whilst clearly being completely finished as footballers at this level, aren't they. Even Deeney did the decent thing and moved on.

 

Don't think anyone has suggested giving them a pass because they were good 5 years ago, have they?

And you expect them to... voluntarily cancel their contracts and give up the money owed to them, while playing regularly for a Premier League club?

 

I mean Cathcart is just a loser, nobody seemed to care with his "the crying is tomorrow night ain't it?" comment. Yes I get it's in jest but just a total loser mentality. A man who's been relegated 3 times.

 

If you're clearly not good enough, yeah, do the honourable thing, talk to the club, and go and play your football elsewhere. It's basically exactly what Deeney did in the end.

Obviously us as a club being absolute lunatics and offering them long contracts despite how awful they are isn't their fault, but at this point do the honourable thing and move on.

They're both embarrassing themselves on the pitch at this point.

 

Whatever happened to that Sherlock?

 

Yeah but he was alright in the 14/15 and 15/16 seasons.

 

Didn’t he say once he’d never actually been to a live Udinese game? Funny bloke.

 

Personally I interpreted that as Cathcart being a bit of a moaner on the pitch, rather than him expecting us to lose

 

You expect them to do this now? Outside of a transfer window, and again, while playing regular PL football, on a good contract? Would you genuinely do that, if Gino gave you a 5 year deal (I wouldn't put it past him).

Again, don't think anyone has made this point, so you're getting annoyed at imaginary people here.

 

No, obviously not. I expect them to have done it long before now. Instead they'll likely still be here stinking the place up yet again for another year next season.

No, no one has specifically said that exact quote, but there is this constant "but they've been such good servants for us" line spun, despite the fact it's completely irrelevant to the current, and long term, reality.

Cathcart doesn't even have the excuse of at least being a bit of a warrior. As GD said, he's actually a complete coward, as well as a completely inept defender at this level. I truly couldn't care less what they've been in the past at this point. It means nothing.

 

Again, would you have done that? Cleverley after playing a key role in a promotion winning side should have turned down money he's owed, his last big contract? It's just not realistic, is it? Both Cathcart and Cleverley have been okay for 25% of the season and mostly crap for the rest. Should be replaced in the summer, and should have been upgraded before, but not their fault.

If you're referring to the above, the 'good servants' was referring to the idea that they shouldn't be subjected to personal abuse, just because they've been selected managers, and not replaced by the owners. Save that, imo, for those who slag off the fans, clearly don't give a **** etc.

 

Personal abuse? Have a day off. I called them "geriatric old clowns". Considering the fact they're both in the 30's and only a couple of years older than me you'd think it'd be blatantly obvious that that's slightly tongue in cheek. Obviously they're not geriatrics and as far as I'm aware they're not actually clowns.

I apologise for getting so personal and hurtful.

 

I don’t disagree with the point you make. But there’s also a counter-argument to be had about just how much enjoyment one would get from being the weak-link every week when you have enough money in the bank to reasonably go elsewhere and have that not be the case?

Professional pride has to come into it somewhere.

I think the reality is that Cathcart and Cleverley (and others) think they are good enough to get us out of this. I agree they wouldn’t just walk or leave in the circumstances - but their belief in their abilities is also misguided.

 

Steady on !

 

Of course you'd never go any further than that, no no no. I hope this massively necessary thread has made you feel better.

 

You can’t criticise the player for being rubbish, you can’t criticise the coach who picks him and you can’t criticise the owner that facilitates his continued employment. Otherwise you’re entitled. All wrapped up nicely.

No wonder the crowd seem like braying automatons nowadays.

 

Lol. What's not necessary about it, exactly?

It's a Watford forum to discuss thoughts and feelings on whatever people want to related to the club. I'll post what I want and I really don't care if you don't personally think it's "necessary", the same way I'm sure you don't care that I think it's pathetic and "not necessary" when you've trudged months or even years into old threads quoting old posts to dig people out.

 

Both played for man Utd mate.

 

You can do whatever you like, I'm just saying there's already dedicated threads for tantrums about specific players.

 

Yeah, no one said that, but crack on.