[RUMOUR] Cameron Archer

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by wfc4ever, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    But in real life, you can't look forward with a crystal ball and see what the future holds. You have to deal with the information you have at the time.

    He had the potential to be worth tens of millions of pounds, and we were getting him on a free transfer and paying him very little if he didn't make appearances. Of all of our stupid transfer business, Rose was up there with the most sensible from a decision making point of view, even if he was, as predicted, a huge failure.
     
  2. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Agree he could have been seen as worth a punt at the time but we really should have put some fitness commitments in his contract. It's not as though he turned up to medicals (assume there was one?) and sign as a sleek fit player and then ballooned into a tubby lump of lard. He didn't look anything like a footballer from day one.
     
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Sorry, he’d barely kicked a ball for 2 years and was obviously out of shape at Newcastle - at 30yo, playing for a relegation candidate, even if he’d had a good or even brilliant season, he would not have been worth tens of millions of pounds.

    Obviously you can’t look forward with a crystal ball - but you can use the high-level of due-diligence that being a club owner and sporting director you are afforded. We clearly didn’t do that. I’d say they didn’t use the information they had at the time…he was a player Gino had wanted previously and that’s all that mattered.

    And I say this as someone who was in favour of signing him at the time - I admit it! But we clearly didn’t do our homework and it’s cost us.

    Plus, his wage increased significantly with appearances - but what we are paying him now is still not insignificant. When you add the signing-on fee, it was a horrendous mistake for a club that hasn’t got money to burn (despite the club indeed burning money regardless it seems).

    Danny Rose of old, in theory, was a sensible signing.

    Danny Rose as he was at that time, in practice, was a ridiculous mistake.
     
    simpleMASH and folkestone orn like this.
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    There is an old saying along the lines of “I’m not rich enough to buy cheap” Cash was obviously tight last season but Rose and Nkoulou were classic cases of the club trying to do things on the cheap and it ending up costing them 2/3/4 times over. They just can’t help themselves though and never seem to learn.
     
    Malteser2 likes this.
  5. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    He was really obvious though. The vast majority who saw him knew he'd get at least 20-25 goals in the Championship (and he ended up getting even more).

    How much were we paying him when he wasn't making appearances? And how much was his signing on fee?

    I heard we paid very little for him, as the base case was that he'd flop. If that's not true, then fair enough.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  6. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    :)
     

    Attached Files:

    wfcmoog likes this.
  7. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    If he's weighing up a number of offers, I hope he doesn't come on here.
     
  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    It’s not just the money though is it? It’s signing a player who we can’t rely on when PL survival was at stake. Even if he was completely free, he was signed as first choice which meant we ended up playing fast and lose with our PL status, relying on a player like him was foolish.
     
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    This is why the Pozzo's need to upgrade their scouting system over Europe and other continents. The only place where they've nailed it is in South America. They are having a lot of success in this market and it can't just be coincidence. It's keeping the Pozzo's afloat. Whoever they deal with in this continent is top drawer. Left to their own devices, the Pozzo's make poor choices far too often. So many examples of this, but when there is a gem it's invariably a Brazilian or Columbian we've picked up who does the business for us.

    The Pozzo's were once ahead of the game, but they are not now. They have to reinvent their system. It's just basic judgement now. If Gino is making the scouting decisions, then he's not good enough at it and he needs to employ someone who is. I could see Ivan Toney was a steal at £5m. Just see his movement in one game should have been enough to sign him. It was so obvious he would make money as a player for you. Why sign rag doll Bayo? What did they see in him to part with £5m? Same with Okoye. What's so special about him to make you decide on parting £5m? Even Sarr, very good player, but not at the £30m price we paid 3 years ago. We're now stockpiling sh1te. We saw it all in one game on Tuesday.

    Players like Rose, Gosling, Bayo, Manaj, Okoye, Fletcher, Gray, Nkoulou, Tufan & Kalu should never have been signed. Some of these players actually cost good money. Rose still taking a wage yet playing for Spurs' U21's, Gray swallowed up £30m in total package, Okoye £5m, Tufan would have cost us £7.5m, Kalu £3m. Just dreadful deals that we're still paying the price for in a lot of cases. So much waste, when the budget is tight. Paying off all those coaches, paying agents extortionate fees for crap players. It's all got to stop. Employ a top rate Sporting Director, employee a top rate European head scout and let them do their work.
     
  10. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    Yep.

    Whatever advantage we had 10 years ago has been eclipsed by other clubs our size.

    Brighton a shining example of what we should be doing. Quite clear that once they got promoted they invested very heavily in worldwide scouting, and they now have a high value young squad with one of the best managers around.

    I'm normally fairly positive about the outlook, and give Gino the benefit of the doubt. However post 2019 we've been in total decline as a club. The few smart signings we've made have been drowned out by the multitude of duds.
     
    DaveWFC and a19tgg like this.
  11. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Squad Player

    Whatever happens with this deal I’m still amazed that Jeffrey Archer would name his son after David Cameron.
     
  12. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    He should never have been signed, if we thought Masina wasn’t good enough, as he was always a low probability high upside risk.

    He should also not have been signed if it got in the way of any of our other transfer business.

    But as someone who is highly critical of our transfer strategy, this one made sense at the time. Not signing a competent CB, CM or striker, did not.

    Our refusal to pay £10m on a decent CB has probably cost us two relegations and almost £100m.

    Not signing Toney probably cost us a relegation and eventually, about £50m.
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  13. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Look at our backline in 19/20 and look at it now. It's very similar. In fact, you could take Kamara out and even almost create it with Kabs, Cathcart and WTE. (minus kiko and Holebas). This (as it currently stands) with question marks over the future of Sarr and Pedro, has to be one of the weakest squads in terms of ability we have had - and that is mainly due to our attack. Our midfield was dire at the start too but we have improved it with Choudry and Asprilla, although Gosling and Cleverley should be nowhere near the first team we have little choice. Kayembe is alright at this level and even Sema can be pretty good.

    Our defence has never really improved - yes Serrialtra is a good player at Championship level but why is he not trusted in the Prem? He must of been good as a rotational player surely. These players (imho) should of been moved on by now:

    Cathcart
    Gosling
    WTE
    Cleverley
    Kabs

    Then again - we blew £35-40M on Sarr who was def a luxury player we didn't really need at the time. 35M could of got us good replacements for some of the above with decent scouting and careful investment. We don't need superstars in this squad right now, we just need players who are capable and will run for the cause. Some of the players at the better League One/Two clubs could probably fit in. It's been a downward spiral and it's been going on for far too long now. As fans' all we can do is watch from the side lines as we continue to be lied to about our future and finances, stuck with players not good enough to take us forward. We all know, if we don't go up this or next season the Parachute payments will end and will be turn into a midtable or bottom half/relegation threatened club. We are slowly getting there now, and it's hurts my heart to be so negative about a club I absolutely adore and have supported since I was young, bringing a WFC lunchbox to school and talking about the players we had then. I hope things improve, I really do, but at the moment is hard to watch.
     
    Ilkley and Happy bunny like this.
  14. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I post a lot. I don't read much.
     
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  15. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    I have two main frustrations with our transfer dealings (apart from the obvious moans such as the Bayat links etc).

    Firstly, we have proved we can make decent signings. We aren’t consistently terrible in the market. Take Choudhury. We identify the need for a defensive midfielder, we look around the domestic market, find a player with some experience and who has played well at times at the top level, we bring him in quickly and efficiently and so far he’s looked decent. I’d like to think that when up to speed, Davis and Hause will be the same. So actually there are times when we get it right. Which makes it even more frustrating when we then lurch to the other end of the spectrum and get it so horribly wrong. It’s as if there are two totally different recruitment teams, working alternate weeks!

    Secondly, I think most of us have felt during our bad times over the last decade that actually we’ve not been that far off being ok. That was especially highlighted during the previous relegation season when we all felt but for the lack of X or Y we’d have stayed up. Last season was a disaster but even so I think at the half way stage, lots of us were thinking ‘well a couple of good additions in midfield and you never know’. As I write today, admittedly a week short of the window shutting, I have the same nagging feeling that we could be about 75% of the way there but won’t address the missing 25% which could see us really competitive.

    At times we really get it right. And at others when we are crying out for defensive improvements to try to keep us up, we get Pussetto in the January window. And Kalu last year instead of some much needed bite in midfield. Crazy.
     
  16. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Same. Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention, but half the time, I have no idea who these apparently 'famous' people are that everyone seems to talk about.

    Who's Andrew French? Or that guy whose name ends in the letter O, that I think posts clips on youtube. Where have they come from and how does everyone know who they are? What have they done that is at all impressive?

    In reality, the only person I've really seen consistently give ITK news stories before they've been picked up on Twitter is this forum's own @YellowKicks, who broke some great stories a few years ago. Romano also used to be good.

    From my experience, everyone else are incredibly hit or miss, offer next to no genuine insight about the club and are often yes men or chancers.
     
    Muggins_77 likes this.
  17. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    Don't forget DrewH!
     
  18. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    I won't bother replying then ;)
     
  19. "I don't think I heard that"
    "I don't think I said it"
    "I don't think - therefore I AM!"
     
  20. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    "I drink therefore I am, Sheila ".
     
  21. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Sounds like he won’t be coming. From Ron’s chat to Andrew French this evening:
    “I don’t really want to talk about players at other clubs, but that particular one would surprise me if anything were to happen.”
     
  22. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Still not coming here but despite a supposed injury, he’s on Villa’s bench again tonight.
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Doubt he's going anywhere then! Not even overly bothered that he's not coming here (certainly happy he's seemingly not going elsewhere in the Championship!), but Gerrard is a football terrorist
     
  24. Joe Blob

    Joe Blob Academy Graduate

    Boro, on loan till end of season.
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Will they go 2 up front as Akpom is in really good form so he won’t be dropped ?
     
  26. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    They also have Marcus Forss and Matthew Hoppe so I'm a little bit confused as I don't think Archer is necessary?
     
  27. Joe Blob

    Joe Blob Academy Graduate

    They've played Matt Crook up top last couple of games.
    Maybe they see Archer as better than what they have and someone who adds depth for the madness of 23 games in 4 months.
     
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    That’s the 3 promotion slots tied up. Maybe next year for poor Watford.
     
    a19tgg likes this.
  29. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    We could do with a goalscorer.
     
  30. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    We don't need him, we already have 2 top top players on loan from Villa.
     
  31. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Is he really that good? 7 goals in 20 last season is ok. Guess we will find out
     
  32. magic

    magic Statto & Vordamen's lovechild

    I seen Akpom linked with a move away yesterday
     
  33. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Linked to Palarse, Everton and Saints I think?
     
    magic likes this.
  34. magic

    magic Statto & Vordamen's lovechild

    Think it was the Everton link I seen
     

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