Burnley 2-1 Watford Fc 21/12/2024

I was working and missed the match. I only saw the highlights. Their second was great. Stand like statues and watch them pass it all round us.

How much do we reckon we missed Louza? Would he have made much difference?

 

And I am not surprised to see that someone who is always wrong has recognised that.

And they are a **** too.

(Genuinely, happy Christmas to you and the family - you ****)

 

Burnley are a very good side and deserved the win but we could have grabbed a point. Highlight for me was in the 54th minute when Chaka beat 3 men then just for the fun of it beat them again, great entertainment.

 

What's frustrating about us at the moment is we're so damn inconsistent. In some ways, it's a fairly obvious cause but it some ways it isn't but the closest we've seen to a complete performance this season is actually our away game v Plymouth. An away game. Not home game. Sheffield Wednesday we scored 6 goals away from home so it's not like we can't perform away from home.

I think the shape we're playing (5-2-2-1) is our strongest shape for the team balance, even if our attack as a result does not fully fire often enough in that shape as 4-3-3 exposes unbalanced elements in our squad building that are masked more in a 5-2-2-1.

We have wingbacks in our squad, not fullbacks. I think Ebosele and Ngakia work both as fullbacks in a 4-3-3 as well as wingbacks as they both have the defensive and offensive understanding to stick or twist during games but Larouci and Andrews are best suited to wing back roles only where their stamina, pace and attacking instict work best because their defensive nous isn't there that a fullback needs. Morris is not great at fullback for this level but is serviceable. Sema is a non-factor as it's blatantly clear he's being sold or released because he's not even in the squad now.

Our centre backs aren't quick enough to reliably play as a back 4; Pollock has gained some pace and agility but he's still not quick. Porteous has the pace for it but is too hit or miss with his consistency. Sierralta is very much not quick enough to do a back 4 and even in a back 3 looks ropey this year. Ogbonna I dont know; his mobility is a big question mark but he also reads the game very well which may compensate. Kevin Keben will help us a lot when he's eventually fit as he's the quickest CB we have with good defensive instincts while Tikvic and Almeida are non-factors.

Central midfield is a big problem for 4-3-3 at the moment. If everyone was fit, it could work better with Louza, Dele-Bashiru and Chakvetadze but if neither Dele-Bashiru or Louza are fit we absolutely cannot contemplate a 4-3-3 as we saw today. Dwomoh had a hard game but felt he got better as it went on overall and I could see him working in that midfield 3 if we had Louza fit. Chakvetadze in that 3 does leave some defensive gap there but he does graft and can in theory get on the ball a lot more and hurt teams much more reliably, that's a big plus to it. Sissoko just doesn't have the legs or awareness defensively leaving too much of a gap in midfield not engaging with the opposition while Kayembé is similar but does have legs to cover ground at least. That's only 4 of the 6 CM's in our squad who I think can make it work reliably and that's too thin.

Our winger choices are decent but worry about depth. Baah and Vata are very good choices out wide (As can Chavetadze) but having only Ince as a natural winger (Albeit ash lost his pace) is not enough unless we promote from the academey / youth like with with Baah.

Strikers whether it's a 4-3-3 or 5-2-2-1 are the same issue; lack of focal point and don't provide a reliable threat or problem to the opposition. I'm not going too in depth with that because it's well worn ground now.

All the above though is the easy bit to quantify because it's tangible in the form of people and shape; it's the attitude and application that's much harder to articulate. We have a mentality problem for sure, this isn't just a personnel or tactics thing and it's stemming from Cleverley. Why are we struggling so much away? I don't see this squad having a a bad attitude or work rate most games. Final ball quality at times certainly, but attitude wise I don't think can be levelled at it this year or at least not as obvious as the last 4 years because apart from a few select fixtures we haven't rolled over and taken it and have fought. Is it because Cleverley is too cautious? Too naive with how to handle the pressure of away grounds? Is it because of how honest and transparent he is with not not knowing how to tackle it filtering to the players and becoming a self fulfilling prophecy? It's so frustrating because we look that much more improved under Cleverley who says the right things, does seem to learn from mistakes and his last few line-ups has shown some experimentation and forethought I didn't think he had to try and make things happen but it's seemingly not working.

It's not an easy thing to fix because it's not an obvious thing. He's adjusted tactics and it's had an impact with that infuriating early conceding goal run. He's acknowledged the problem but has yet to find answer. All we can do is be patient but I agree with @Burnsy that Cleverley can't be considered a novice manager anymore and that the home record is masking some serious problems he has to answer now because the home form will not last forever. This is not a Cleverley out statement; I want him to stay and grow and this is ultimately part of his growth.

 

Guilty as charged.

 

Wheels have come off. Need a change before the new year. Act now Pozzo b4 it's to late.

 

Tom Cleverley's post match comments remind me of playing Football Manager when I realise I can't say nice things EVERY week so this week I am going to be nasty to my players.

 

How much longer do I have to watch a centre-forward who so clearly has no clue as to how to fulfil the role of centre-forward? There is never an option to play a quick forward ball down the centre because we always lose possession doing it.

 

@PowerJugs In short, I read your post as you saying we don’t have the right mix of players to play any shape very well.

I agree.

 

I think the squad has a decent balance for 3atb and wing backs. Our wingbacks are well suited for the roles being asked and our centre back options are also a good fit, but slower than I'd like. Only Porteous and Keben I think have any real recovery pace in the backline which makes our preferred higher line a risk.

My question is how to balance the midfield and attacking setup as I don't think we have the right qualities to do a midfield 3. I think the 2-2-1 setup is the most suited but we don't have enough quality / consistentcy to make ourselves a true play-off level team using that system either. We're not far away but we're not there as it stands. Get a proper holding midfielder in (Like Jake Livermore type role but more mobile and not 34), drop Sissoko to the bench and be a seeing out / training standards mentor type role and I think that solves a lot of problems centrally.

 

That second Burnley goal is miles ahead of what we're capable of - fair play

 

Better team won, nothing to complain about really.

Three winnable games coming up.

Have a good Christmas all!

 

I’m surprised by those saying Cleverley isn’t a novice anymore - he had 6 months coaching the under 18’s, it’s not like he has a wealth of coaching experience prior to his managerial career which in itself, is 9 months long, 2 of those being the end of the season.

Not saying he’s immune to criticism etc, but crikey it’s a bit like saying a young academy lad who’s made 30 appearances should be expected to show the nous of a player in their mid twenties.

 

Do you remember when people used to say that Sissoko was an upgrade on Livermore? Livermore didn’t feature as much, but when he played, he was generally very solid.

I like Moussa, but he’s not the reassuring presence that Jake was. And I don’t think he has the same footballing intelligence. He’s put in some good performances this year, but he’s not been consistent. He’s obviously still quite fit, but maybe he needs to simplify his game as he gets older.

Sounds like we really missed Louza today. I love it when he starts to pull the strings.

 

I agree. Didn’t think I’d say this a while back but I’m worried Louza’s flurry of form will lead to a wealthier club taking a punt in January. When he is on it he is our best holding midfielder by a distance.

 

I feel generally in football you are where you deserve to be. You get seasons where you over-achieve (our last promotion season probably) and seasons where you under-achieve (Vialli perhaps) but overall once you’ve passed twenty or so matches, the table is generally accurate.

So what of this season? I feel probably we’ve over-achieved. Why? Because we don’t really have a decent quality number 9, we don’t have a terrific midfield partnership (along the lines of Palmer-Johnson, Capoue-Behrami, Abdi plus one etc), we can’t keep clean sheets on the road, our keeper divides opinion, our best player can’t score goals, we have a manager in his first full season and so on.

With over-achievement comes higher expectation. We see a comfortable home win yesterday for a top three side on a long unbeaten run as a huge disappointment. And so it should be. Who on earth wants a season of all of us feeling we will lose most matches?

After last year’s traditional Boxing Day shocker, we ended 2023 in 10th. If we can only keep our brilliant home form going this Thursday (against a team I predict will be tough opponents) we could end 2024 three or four places higher. In my opinion, that would be a very very good achievement. I share the frustrations of many, but I’m loving seeing Baah develop, Vata too these past weeks, Chak look so skilful, Pollock going from the almost exit door to maturing into a fine Championship player, running my eyes in disbelief when the usually ineffective Bayo suddenly blasts into scoring form, and I’m loving seeing a rookie manager with such close connections to the club over-achieve with a 45% win rate.

So for me overall there is way more good than bad right now. The pessimistic part of me expects another rubbish January window and us to slide down the league, but then again the pessimistic me feared relegation! I’m happy to reach the end of 2024 in a position where a good second half of the season remains possible, and looking forward to seeing what happens.

 

You’re totally correct @SkylaRose

In our last nine seasons, we’ve only once improved our league position from where we were at the half-way stage of the season. The promotion season under Munoz.

Here’s a record of our position after 23 matches v final position.

23-24. 7th v 15th

22-23. 4th v 11th

21-22 18th v 19th (close that year lol)

20-21 5th v 2nd

19-20 17th v 19th (Covid season)

18-19 7th v 11th (cup final season)

17-18 10th v 14th

16-17 13th v 17th

15-16 10th v 13th

The Bilic season you mentioned we beat Reading and Huddersfield to go 4th. That season the 23rd match of the campaign was the last one before Christmas, as yesterday should have been too but of course we had a postponement this month. Under Bilic we went as high as 3rd after 28 matches, so the slump didn’t start with the traditional Boxing Day defeat, as we won twice in the first half of January.

 

The thought had occurred to me, but at least Pozzo’s stubbornness will make it hard for anyone to match his evaluation of the player. January is far less likely than in the summer, which is when Louza will get restless if we don’t get promoted. If we sell Kayembe in January then I don’t think Pozzo will budge on Louza. That’s my hope, anyway.

 

Is someone in for the one footed wonder?

 

Some rumours circulating. I seem to recall that Ipswich were interested in the summer.

 

Really like this post, 100% balanced and spot on!

 

Anyone know why Sema has been out of the squad lately?

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

 

It was just a bad day all round. My Burnley supporting mate said it was there best performance of the season. Like many have said, our squad does seem a central midfielder short, which was evident today. Onto the festive season program...

 

I think you are being very harsh on TC. As expected with a novice manager, he is getting some things right and somethings wrong, it just happens to be divided generaly on a home & away basis! But as you say, Lets see how he does in the next few games as this is a great chance to string some results together.

 

Why is it harsh to point out he’s getting things wrong? He’s said it about himself so seems strange to suggest fans shouldn’t recognise it.

And you think it’s fine because he’s a ‘novice manager’ still in your opinion. I think he’s been doing it long enough that he shouldn’t have the ‘novice’ tag afforded to him anymore and I’ve explained why.

And as many have pointed out, we aren’t blowing teams away at home are we? We generally have been good at winning ‘arm-wrestles’ by the odd goal. But we have been throughly outplayed in the majority of our away games - I think it’s highly unlikely that balance remains throughout a whole season and some of us are a bit concerned that it’s more likely our away issues come home with us at some point.

Frankly, I’m just bored of TC saying he has to put his finger on the issue - he’s been saying it for months and nothing at all has changed.

 

Has he gone yet? Come on Gino! We need a response.

 

Tom has now been in charge for 34 matches.

If he survives the next three, he will move up to 6th in the list of our longest serving managers under Pozzo, climbing above Xisco, Sanino and Joka (36 each).

Make it to the end of the season and he becomes 3rd longest, behind only Zola and Gracia.

That’s probably more of an indication of the general **** show we’ve been over the past few years, but fairly impressive nonetheless!

 

Too many managers/head coaches get heat too soon and then fans regret their successors. He's given us a good run of home form and a good connection with the fans, he's brought young players in and has significantly improved some players already here. Give him a chance to build on that.

 

I reckon it's because TC has realised he is slower than me on my morning jog in a headwind.

 

Doesn't seem Burnsy said anything else than wanting to give TC a chance. I don't think anyone at all wants TC gone, but critism of him is fair when warranted?

 

I think TC started worrying about Sema being slow these days when he noticed him tying up his bootlaces as he was running.

 

Anyone know why Sema has been included in the squad in the early part of the season ?