What happens to the likes of Bevans and the other first year pros if they don't go out on loan. Do you think the club will arrange friendlies still for fringe players and younger players to play in?
The problem is that with Cat 3, we don't get to coach players under 12. So our pool of players becomes far more limited. we also now will only face other Cat 3 sides when playing competitive matches, so the standard of opposition will be much less than our current 12-18 year olds have been playing against. Its nice to think that we can just ignore the EPPP and go on as normal, but there are significant restrictions that we aren't going to be able to get around. I believe that even Barnet have managed to get Cat 2, which is a complete joke
Well Harry Forrester for one. But that isnt really the point. The fee they used to have to pay was preventative. The fee they prevented them from taking chances. Now they dont have to worry. If a Player looks like they will probably make it, they give us literally a few quid, and the player is theirs.
Speaking as someone who has supported the Pozzo family from Day One, I have to say I'm shocked, angry and extremely disappointed in this decision. Our academy, the performances of the players that we have produced, and more importantly the transfer fee's that have resulted from it, is the primary reason why this club is still afloat, and essentially giving up on it (because this is exactly what we're doing) will change the future of my club dramatically. The whole 'not Cat 1' thing is slightly more understandable due to the huge costs involved, but to a) not have a competitive league for any of our players over the age of 18 and b) to have our Championship rivals in a position to purchase our youngsters for next to nothing is a disgrace. Looking at it purely in terms of quality, I think we can all safely safe we're better than the likes of Luton and Gillingham and shouldn't be at their level. The academy players have every right to be pissed off and I'm glad they're not afraid to say something. The fact that they're already complaining tells me they wouldn't be adverse to leaving and joining a Cat 1/Cat 2 side already.. Not happy at all, this is something that we as fans need to stand against and if the WST do not speak up in the next 24 hours I think we should seriously consider the possibility and the logistics of forming a new trust.
It's funny looking at the academy players tweets, all clearly very annoyed. Even more senior members of the youth team like mensah, Connelly and bevans. Not great really.
downgrading to cat 3 is making the youth want to leave? funny that aint it we dont even need a club to come in for them
I'm sure people who are now questioning the Pozzos are the same ones who condemned anyone who wasn't wetting their pants with excitement when the takeover news broke. I remained cautious and wanted to see what they would do with the academy. I don't think what they have done is that shocking. Harefield keeps running as it is, the under 18 team still plays regular fixtures which are based on learning rather than results anyway and hopefully the likes of Hoban, Hamilton-Forbes and Smith will go and play men's football on loan somewhere. On top of this we're keeping costs down as we're obviously a bombsite financially! Yes category 3 sounds bad but it doesn't mean we will definitely lose potential stars, if they want to stay then they will stay and I'm sure the club will carry on trying to convince these kids that we are the best place to be for their development.
I think the most worrying thing for me is that only one out of all the academy players twitter accounts I've just gone on hasn't already expressed their anger over this. It's a real opportunity missed to develop our players against the best in the country and they all seem to think they've been ****ed over by the club. I'd agree.
There now joking about how there gonna get 3 figures in the season and how easy all the teams are giving them no challenge
This might be a good time for them to learn that tweeting and criticising the mgr or owners carries risk and they might be wiser to make their points "in house"
Harefield to be replaced by the Glenn Hoddle Academy for kids who cant play football good and want to learn how to do other stuff good too
Blimey that’s one hell of a read ! A couple of bullet points otherwise I will drift off into a waffle. 1 - The £4m we are losing includes the money we invest in the academy, so it’s not more cost being thrown at another operational loss. 2 - With the players we have bought in, yes we do have enough development players to play in an under 21 league. These don't have to be senior players but can be scholars as well. It would have done players like Assombalomba, Thompson, Massey the world of good to be developed through our system rather than having to go out on loan. 3 - I argued at the time of their arrival that we would lose some of our identity and what we all believed to be close to us. The promises that they understood local differences between one club and another in their opening statement of intent, did counter everything that we had been told. 4 - The Pozzo system works and that is finding young talent and developing them through a series of loans, not developing them through their own academy. They buy cheap, develop and sell high. Where possible they inter trade their players with each other to reduce costs. It’s the business model that works for them and one we are going to have to fit into. 5 - Anyone who believes what we are told by directors, owners, management of football clubs are fools. We've all seen it a 100 times and we all still fall into the trap of believing that the club means as much to the owner as the fans, guess what - it doesn't, but there again we are only investing emotion not millions. 6 - The cream will always rise, the Murray's, Marriappa's, Young's, Sordell's will always come through because they are good enough. The days of having 50 odd % of our team come through the academy and X amounts of minutes in a season being players that have come through the system are gone. In exchange we have a club that has a more financial footing. We realistically have two choices, the academy and development and another set of owners who may not be able to finance the club or financial security and a club that changes from what we all see as key values and our identity. As much as it hurts, we have to sacrifice what we want for what we need.
Well so far at least, it doesn't really seem like much money is being put into the club. The signings we've made haven't cost us any money (aside from wages) , the development of the ground has been put on the back burner and the academy is to be funded at a fraction of what It currently is. I understand that this is a cautious approach to a new venture, but so far I don't see that the new owners have much faith in the project. The Mariappa money will no doubt be used to pay off debt, and when Murray is sold, the money will no doubt be used for the same purpose. From reading Nani's statement, it seems to me like they've decided to move away from the academy entirely. Obviously I don't agree with the EPPP scheme, and its really holding clubs to ransom. However, Palace have at least given themselves a fighting chance, and so have a handful of Championship and League 1 sides. For us to downgrade our setup from prospective Cat 1 to Cat 3 shows me that they don't ever plan to have Harefield running the same way it is now. The main issues with Cat 3 is that we don't get access to players U-12, so we miss out on a large pool of players. The other main source of players has been players released from Premiership academies (Sordell, Hoban etc), but the problem we're now faced with is why would a player coming from a Cat 1 side chose to come to a Cat 3 side? They will be playing a poor standard of opposition week in week out, so it would make more sense to go to a Cat 2 side where they'll be up against a similar standard of player.
The most disappointing thing for me is that the academy players clearly found out through the wobby article. I think that speaks volumes.
feck me you have excelled there WAS - well presented and sensible post - at last the forum throws up a brain cell.. up da foolham..
If this is true then its bang out of order, thought they would of been gathered together and told the ins and outs of the decision.
I was thinking about this last night. Just a thought, but if our youth players (who show genuine promise) registration was part or fully owned by Udinese/Pozzo's instead of fully being owned by Watford then could a cat 1 0r 2 club come in for them on the cheap still? Just a theory/clutching at straws, but surely it would be cheaper to keep the academy running as is (but cat 3) and with the best players joint owned than spend millions to get the academy up to cat 1? Probaley all nonsense, but just a thought i had anyway. Seems odd that one of the main things that drew the Pozzo's to Watford in the first place should then be treated in such a way - especially with how Zola has been impressed by our young squad players.
Seen lots of posts about the academy being one of the main things that attracted Pozzos to Watford. Was it really? I'd have guessed high on their list was a club: Available at low price. Mid table championship position. Half decent squad to build from. A clear roadmap to the premiership TV money. Located close to if not in London (for the foreign johnny players) Similar size to Udinese and Granada (certainly not bigger) Benign fan base used to regular changes in ownership so there is no culture shock. When you have a stockpile of young talent playing around Europe, I can't see how a Watford academy would be all that highly prized. It wouldn't if I were Pozza and spending my own money.
it seems that most people who think we've thrown the babies out with the bath water (the under 11s) with this downgrading may be wrong. There is a suggestion on glory horns that being a cat 3 academy means you can coach under 11s from 1 hour away so no real change to the current situation. So the big implication for not being a cat 1 or 2 is no under 21 league, which would need a huge squad anyway. So by being level 3 we save money, can have a smaller squad focusing on quality, Harefield potentially runs exactly the same way as before anyway. As for a previous post using crystal palace as an example saying we are in the same boat as them, so why can't we have a cat 2 academy as well, we are clearly not in that we are connected to Udinese and Granada, so the implications of the tie in with them e.g. possible registration of players to prevent them being poached might have made the extra money to be spent by being cat 1 or 2 completely pointless and its not as though the clubs got cash to be wasted.
The Pozzo's have run two football teams, in competitive leagues, succesfully - we should give them a little trust. It isnt in their interests for us to do badly. Harefield was a cornerstone of the recent Watford Way but hasnt been set in stone historically, it may not be in our interests to be CAT 1 or even 2 for the near future. If the aim is the prem then once there CAT 1 can be established. As people have pointed out this is the cheapest option and it may not lead to many changes in the way the academy is run. If people can get over not having the pseudo-kudos of CAT 1 status and judge the Pozzos on the next season or two that might be fairer than panicking now. As for these Carlos Kickaballs coming over here with their fancy-smancy, injured and unfit, European ways, stealing our 11 year old Tommy Smiths for 3k to take them to Chelsea in Sepp Blatter's car, as long as they wear the shirt i'll support them 110%
We wouldn't have got Cat 1 status due to the cost of it and us not having enough quality coaches at the academy levels. There needs to be 18+ coaches for Cat 1 academies coaching up to U18 level, I'd be surprised if we currently have more then half of that. By being Cat 3 instead of Cat 2 all we're missing out on is participation in the U21 and U18 leagues that Cat 1 and Cat 2 clubs are in. IMO that's no great loss as we can easily send out U21 players out on loan to get even more valuable experience in the lower leagues. Our U18s might suffer a little as they'd be playing against inferior opponents when compared to Man Utd or Chelsea. I can easily see the U18s flying out to Granada or Udinese at some point this season and perhaps all 3 U18s playing against each other. Cat 2 and Cat 3 have identical recruitment restrictions, which are the same as they were under the old scheme with 60 minutes travel time for U9s and U11s and 90 minutes for 12-16 year olds. Only Cat 1 clubs can recruit nationally, but even then for this year it's only 15-16 year olds and that changes to 11-16 year olds next season as long as they are involved in their Harefield equivalent system with their education structured to get them 4 hours of coaching a day. Until we get into the Premier League there is no pressing reason to go for Cat 2 or Cat 1 status as it will mean making a bigger loss money wise for not much footballing gain. And no, I'm not Gainluca Nani
I'm not so sure how much involvement the Pozzo's actually have with the running of the club. It's been publicised that Duxberry and Nani approached the Pozzo's with this 'project'. I'm getting the impression that the Pozzo's have simply said 'Fine, here's an annual budget of £x million and you can have access to any of our players not in the first team of Udinese or Granada. However, we want a retun on our investment in 3/4/5 years time." Therefore Duxberry and Nani's main priority is to get the club promoted as quickly as possible within a budget. Long term investments in areas such as the academy and infrastructure would be of no interest.
This no Under 11/12 thing is being bandied around like it's a fact. It's not. Our academy will change very little, so perhaps people should do a bit of research before having a strop!
The pozzo's are boxing clever. no need to panic!! I can't do a long post as I'm on my phone and very busy today, but basically Simms and bowzer are bang on.
An option would be to send players on loan to Portsmouth with us footing the wage bill, that way the youngsters get to play League 1 football and it helps Pompey.
