10 Games Gone... Review Time

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by SkylaRose, Sep 17, 2022.

  1. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    I don't generally make threads bar matchday ones, but I just wanted to look at our squad as a whole and determine if we can see what Duxbury and Gino can. I'm not counting Edwards in this - he is just one of the many "yes" men who attempt to get a tune out of this squad on a yearly basis. Here is my own feelings on the squad and how we have done over the first ten games of a 46 gane season. This is not the entire squad, just the main group.

    Bachmann - Good enough for this level, still has his "Dracula" moments when it comes to crosses, and cannot be totally at fault for every goal we concede due to the poor backline. He has done alright overall and would of thought he keeps his place till the end of the season bar injury.

    Okyoe - Not really seen enough of him, but he was pretty poor in the loss to MK Dons. Not #1 yet, but he could grow into a good keeper with more games and good coaching.

    Ngakia - Hardly played so difficult to judge. He is capable at this level but still has mistakes in his game he should of ironed out by now. Young enough to mature though, not sure he will be here past his contract but a good club servant overall and can be pretty reliable.

    Gaspar - Poor man's replacement for the excellent Kiko. Bought on the cheap or we overpaid (either way is probably about right). Not a RWB and not good enough for a squad that should be aiming higher. One fluke sliced cross for Bayo's goal against Middlesbrough is the best he has done.

    Choudhury - The "hair". On loan from Leicester but he is a good player who is technically one of our best in the middle. Such a shame he is often caught out at times. Works well with Asprilla and slots into his role each game with little fuss. One I would like to see us hold onto if the chance came up.

    WTE - Should of been sold three years ago. Good bloke and the main reason we got promoted under Xisco. Footballing abiliy is hit and miss even at this level and generally has a mistake in him. Should not be in our 22.

    Louza - Hasn't played for a long time but is without a doubt one of our best players on his day. Cannot get him back in this side fast enough.

    Davis - A bit of an unknown still but unlike some of our other "strikers" he can hit the back of the net. Talented and enjoys his football but he needs to be played sparingly over the season as he is still not totally match fit. One I hope we keep.

    Cleverley - Same as WTE. Experienced head in the middle but his legs have gone. Should not be in the 22.

    Manaj - Another Bayat punt and to be fair didn't show a lot of promise in the games he did play. Out injured now for god knows how long. I cannot see him staying if we fail to go up but we might have no choice.

    Sema - Old school Championship level player who also should of been sold/moved on by now. Still effective when he wants to be but should be nowhere near our starting eleven. Squad player at best.

    Pedro - Too good for this division and should of been sold in the window. Has moments of quality but is often let down by his over-play. Can see him staying whatever happens this season unless we get a massive offer.

    Sarr - See Pedro

    Cathcart - Another one who should be nowhere near our squad at the moment. Has been a loyal servant to Watford but is too old and slow now to be consistent. Needs to be shipped out.

    Gosling - See Cathcart bar the loyal servant part.
    Cthulhu likes this.
  2. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Dog ****.

    Very simple assessment.
    HornM25, Muggins_77, Cude>2< and 4 others like this.
  3. Heidar

    Heidar Reservist

    Haven't listed what I would say is the only positive so far this season - Yaser Asprilla.
  4. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    Look promising, should be great for us.
  5. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Yes. I always expect the worst. Watford have somehow exceeded those expectations. Remarkable stuff.
    NathWFC likes this.
  6. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    We'll end up flogging him for £2 million to QPR, or Reading. Just like the good old days.
  7. DaveWFC

    DaveWFC Academy Graduate

    Nah, he'll go to Udinese, but the podcaster/1881 types will assure us its fine because it's all the same pot or some ******** like that.
    J.B, wfcmoog and folkestone orn like this.
  8. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    We'll get a Successful replacement though (if you get my drift)
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    10 games gone and it’s clear we’re not going up. If performances don’t take an up turn we’ll be fighting another relegation battle.
  10. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    How could WTE have been sold 3 years ago when he only arrived 2 years ago? ;)
    SkylaRose likes this.
  11. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    2012-2016 - enjoyable to watch, decent quality
    2016-2020 - some decent quality but toxic
    2020+ - crap squad, not even remotely enjoyable
  12. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame First Year Pro

    1.4 pt per game extrapolated over the season = 64pts = nowhere near the play-offs.
    Smudger likes this.
  13. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame First Year Pro

    very harsh on 2018-19 which was one of the best seasons in the club’s entire history. Up there in the same bracket as 82-83 and 83-84. Won the opening 4 games, in the hunt for Europe until the death and reached the cup final.

    No matter what happens, that’s pretty much the high water mark for what we can expect unless there’s a billionaire takeover.
  14. I'm sorry, he obviously has talent, but he's not ready. Too lightweight 5% brilliance, 40% wayward passes, 55% poor decision making. Great when he gets it right, but the number of times he made a terrible pass or got muscled off the ball because he has held on to it too long. Players in this division are not mugs. They may not have Asprilla's silky skills, but they know how to deal with a willowy 18 year old.
    dynamo380 and wfcmoog like this.
  15. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Despite his mistakes, we need more players like him, but if today was anything to go by, where he apparently stopped tracking back after 60 mins, we need to be careful with him! I can only hope we are able to see him in yellow for us next season, it could be his season
  16. HampshireHorn84

    HampshireHorn84 Academy Graduate

    I've written off playoffs and promotion. Naturally love to be proved wrong but this team really just does not have the depth or any quality once you look past a few.
    I think we'll be lower mid (circa 12/13) this season.
    Next season who knows, but there are plenty of examples of teams who have lost their way through poor leadership at the top and find themselves dropping into league 1 - and I'd say our board are doing the best to make us look like the poster boys for how not to run a club.
    Thoroughly depressing
    SkylaRose, Smudger and Robert Peel like this.
  17. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    He was playing right in front of us second half, looked like he was either petrified, knackered or couldn't be bothered. Got beaten and just stopped multiple times.
    Whippendell Woods likes this.
  18. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Out of our current squad. Kamara, Hause, Louza, Asprilla, Pedro and Davis are the only ones I know can do what is needed. Most of the others are average and several are utterly awful. Hardly any way to build a promotion looking side.

    By mixing in what talent we have with dross it makes the job of those with the talent and ability even harder. We constantly have to play Asprilla who is a teenager when he should have been bled in with more consistent minutes game by game as a substitute when life should be easier for him against tiring defences (somewhat mitigated now by the new substitutions rule).
    HornM25 and SkylaRose like this.
  19. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Yep. It shouldn't have been difficult to pick up some mediocre players to replace the dross. In the summer we were a 'capable' right wing-back, Centre-back and central midfielder away from HMS PTL being a reality. Failure address two of those positions was criminal.
  20. hornmeister

    hornmeister Club Legend

    The squad we have is OK. Would like it to be better but we were not an attractive prospect for players just going down.
    Where we fail is in the correct utilisation, targeted training and ultimately motivation.

    Watford traditionally punch above our weight, at the moment for whatever reason, this isn't happening. The break could give us the reset we need or we could continue to stagnate. The next match will probably be the most useful indicator as to how the rest of the season will pan out.
    SkylaRose likes this.
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's an indictment on our squad that he's played so much already. Should be a few promising cameos and Cup games at most.
  22. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    One of the things we're seeing and suffering from is exactly what we intentionally flew by the seat of our pants with and incredibly fortuitously avoided in the last promotion season, which is basically injuries happening at all.

    We talked about relying on this back then, and magically, effectively none of the players we desperately relied on as nailed on starters who were too good for the division really missed a game once that team was forged by Coventry and went on its promotion-winning run. It was pointed out as a risk at the time, and it's one that came off, from a really rather low percentage likelihood - if we had lost any of Hughes, Cleverley (at that time), Masina, Chalobah, Femenia, or Sarr for any period of time, that would have put a serious dent in our ability to pull that run off.

    Of course, because of unbridled arrogance, mixed in with the fact that it miraculously came off, Gino was even further convinced that it was a perfectly fine strategic decision to continue to operate flying by the seat of our pants, and the legacy of that is what we see now - no right wing back in the squad, no first-choice right back in the squad, the defence made up of who it is, and in general a vital transfer window allowed to peter out in a damp squib with a squad still severely unbalanced and overall nowhere near the quality level required for the bench to step up and contribute in the event of first-choicers being rendered unavailable.
    Hogg-DEENEY!!!, SkylaRose and wfcmoog like this.
  23. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I cling on to the hope that for once we will improve during a season. We weren’t bad at times yesterday, but we are unable to exert control over a game. We need to turn good patches into good games.

    I’m still not sure if the players we have are good enough to do that. We seem easily outpassed at times. It was also a sign of the manager’s lack of confidence to switch formation after we went ahead yesterday. We invited pressure and were lucky to keep a point. We certainly are not good enough to expect any lightning transition to a dominant team, despite our highly rated individuals. It will be hard work both on the pitch and watching it.
  24. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    We were pretty ***** under Ivic, but improved massively under Xisco, and that was because of, what, two players coming back? (And of course Deeney getting injured, but then again he was missing for large parts of Ivic's reign and we didn't look convincing with or without him). With Louza to come back, I'm sure we'll improve a bit, dare I say we'll sign a RWB in January? Is that too much to ask for?
    Moose likes this.
  25. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    That's definitely not true, we were enough of a pull to attract the likes of Davis, Choudhury and Hause on loan, it's just we're so skint that we were unable to really make any further inroads in the window, especially when the little other money we had was spunked on Bayo, Gaspar and Manaj...
    wfcmoog likes this.
  26. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    In my opinion the entire off season was all about learning from past mistakes and looking forward to a long term relationship with a manager for the first time in Ginos world.

    Fast forward to now and it does feel like we've been mugged off.

    The lack of pace in midfield aside is horrific and we are relying on Kayembe to turn in 7 out of 10 games every week to link the defence and attack. Choudry is solid but he's playing so deep it's like a back 5 at times.

    I feel for Rob Edwards. He has been appointed to basically rebuild but it's like he's been given a second hand lego kit from a charity shop and now he's unboxed it he's found there's lots of missing pieces.

    So utterly draining being a fan when you know Gino will just sack him, bring in another angry older manager to balance the youthfulness of Edwards and continue to ignore the bigger picture of a squad that is old, past it and relying on the two or three youngsters to do all the running every game.
    3000, wfcmoog, Halfwayline and 5 others like this.
  27. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    In my opion our squad, on paper, should be competitive enough in this tinpot league. We have players who should be playing PL or would be classified as "Top Championship players" and we have some utter garbage. Our garbage maybe marginally better than others garbage, but our 'top' players on their day should be head and shoulders above others. Currently the players look clueless, I've seen moments where we're building an attack on the edge of the area, only to pass to backwards eventually to Bachmann to go route 1 and lose possession. My issue currently is with RE, and I don't like saying that as he seems a decent bloke, and it is till early days but I'm just not seeing any foundations of a style he wants to play. I know people will say he hasn't got the players he wanted for his system etc, but then what's he doing? The subs seem to be strange or late in the game and he seems to be trying to put square pegs through circle holes.

    We are also in a transition so RE does need to be given some slack, however this situation does remind me a bit of the start of Rodgers campaign - I recall one game in particular where we dominated possession (think it was close to 70%), but were blunt up top. I think from memory we lost 4-0 to Reading. It was frustrating beyond believe, but at the time we could identify a style Rodgers was trying to implement even if the results weren't coming. I can't say the same at the moment after 10 games. It seems to be a bit hit and hope, and rely on the odd moment of class from Sarr or JP. If RE was given the sack though, I have no idea who we'd get in - however in the last promotion campaign are main strength was being hard to beat or score against, we haven't even got that at the moment. It wouldn't surprise me if he were to go whether an older head, perhaps more renowned for setting up a defence comes in. It's grim watching at the moment.
  28. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    There are quite a few who don't find that viewpoint acceptable.
  29. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    If you disingenuously misrepresent their views, then yes, absolutely.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  30. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    That is true for many, but not all, as some posts clearly show.

    I will state (as I have before) that holding the view expressed by ETG is in no way equivalent to excusing the hierarchy's ****-ups.
  31. hornmeister

    hornmeister Club Legend

    Did any of them have a better option? Would they have got regular first team action where they were? They're in the shop window with us. Either for their own clubs to prove their worth or to secure a move. If we get promoted through their efforts then they may want to stay. We were not a good prospect for a permanent in the window and unless we pull our finger out after the break we can kiss our chances of bringing more quality in and at a greater risk of losing our star players.

    The next couple of months could be absolutely crtical for the future of the club.
  32. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Davis is a top Championship player, maybe not good enough for the Prem, but he was absolutely vital to Nottingham Forest, why wouldn't other supposedly top Championship clubs want him? Hause and Choudhury, again, not quite good enough for the Prem, but such is the gulf between the Prem and the Championship, that level is absolutely fine for us now. I have to say I can't remember exactly who was in for each of these players, but I seem to recall tons of clubs were interested in Davis, and others were interested in Choudhury? (Hause was coming off surgery so perhaps more of a 'punt')
  33. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    6 points off the autos and there are glimmers of a team in there, still not sold on Edwards and I feel things could go either way at the moment. Too early to wet the bed.

    I still want the club sold though, hopefully Elton was itk at his concert and by the end of the year we might know something.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  34. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Please - god no.

    QSF 3.0
  35. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    No, indeed, but no one's saying it is - the relative collapse at the end of that season is a separate, annoying issue. But literally no one's saying that Watford should challenging for the Champions League, which would be the only thing supposedly 'found acceptable' above that, either.

    No one's saying we should be regularly challenging for Europe, either, except at one very public point Scott Duxbury - annoyance at the way we allowed that to fall apart is in large part based on an awareness that it was the best and only opportunity we're likely to have to have got into Europe as a one-off for the first time in the very best part of 40 years, and therefore a squandered opportunity. It's nothing to do with 'expectation', or indeed the dreaded (and braindead) accusation of 'entitlement' - which, yes, indeed, I am aware and fully acknowledge you did not explicitly make in your post.

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