If we did move Kone on to Udinese then that would mean yet another player who we'd have to replace in the summer! It also doesn't mean that we still wouldn't do another similar type of deal again in future. I put £10mil as approx. £7mil Kone + £2mil Ferreira + £350k Porteous + £650k Hoedt. Kone's fee would be higher dependent on add-ons. Considering we're getting £30mil for JP, then just him and Sarr alone should at least bring us to minimum £40mil. In light of Manga's interviews we'd probably listen to offers to anyone who wants to leave or whose attitude doesn't seem good enough, and Louza seems the most likely of those who fit that criteria and who we might get alright money for; my question mark with him going isn't so much that we'd be fine with selling him, because I think we would be, but more if anyone is actually going to come in with a decent offer for him when he's been underwhelming. I just remembered that there's also Bayo - whatever the heck is up with him - if we don't bring him back. He'd still be worth a few £mil to another Belgian club. There's also probably a decent chunk money we'll have freed up from the wages of Gosling, Cleverley and possibly Cathcart being off the books with their contracts expiring in the summer. Same with us likely moving on Gaspar on a free to ditch his wages.
In that interview he did with a German outlet a while back, Manga noted that he likes to target talent in the £2-5m range. If we’re able to sell Sarr for over £10m and shift some of the deadwood off the wage bill, I’m envisioning us signing 3 or 4 players in that range, and then sign a couple of loanees and a couple of frees on top of that, which would involve spending somewhere between a quarter and half of the incoming amounts. But that’s not really based on much other than my view of Manga’s expectation for a long leash heading into his first window and I recognise that the evidence is there to argue either way quite reasonably. I do think that sort of spend would be sufficient to make us competitive for next season, if coupled with the right appointment. Something like the below would be doable. GK: Mike Cooper (£5m) LB: Zemura (loan) or Manning (free) LCB: Van Hecke (£3m) DM: Bielik (£2m) or Whiteman (3.5m) LW: Aaron Collins (£1m) RW: Ogbene (free) ST: Kieffer Moore (loan) or Krasso (Saint-Etienne) (free) ST: Maja (free) If we have £10-15m to spend (gross) that’s a good amount of wiggle room to improve the squad considering that only the relegated sides will be having outlays in excess of that (unless any other sides sell key assets for £15m+)
It will be the same old pattern I feel unless we cut ties with Bayat and don’t rely on loans . Will Kone stay or go to Udinese then ?
When we were relegated in 19/20, we sold Doucoure, Estupinan, Suarez, Pereyra, Foulquier. That was easily in the £40-45m ball park, if not more. We then followed that up in January by turning Deulofeu's loan into a permanent move and selling Capoue. We didn't bring in a single player for a fee that season.
Was there some big global financial event that created huge amounts of uncertainty about revenue streams at that time?
Covid. No fans. Huge loss of revenue and uncertainty about future revenue. May have combined to make the club more conservative than otherwise. As such, I don’t think it’s fair to look at spending in that season as relevant. You only need to compare championship spending in 22/23 with 20/21 to see that it was a different economic environment.
How much would we have lost from Covid though? Our gate receipts didn't make up a large percentage of our income in the Prem, and aren't even particularly big by Championship standards
It being a global event didn't stop other teams splashing out on our players though, did it? It wasn't as though the whole transfer market ground to a halt. We had to be more cautious because our owners had got us relegated and we had a huge debt to service. A second consecutive season in the Championship may well have a similar effect on us. And anyway, the point being made was that it was unprecedented for us to receive as high an income in transfer fees as we're likely to this summer (£40-45m), which is demonstrably untrue as it happened a mere three seasons ago.
But it’s not just the loss of revenue but the huge uncertainty about when that revenue would return. This depressed spending across the division. This season spending was up 50% on 20/21 even though sales were less than half what they were in 20/21. No one in the Championship spent any money that year, Toney was the highest and only fee above £5m. I believe that £40m in sales that season is not equal to £40m in sales this season but there is a precedent as you note of sales at that volume from 20/21, even if the situations are clearly distinguishable.
It was about £40m that summer, but about £60m overall as Capoue was sold in the winter and Deulofeu's loan was turned into a perm
Appologies for "net" spend comment, but hoped people would get the gist. I guess this is the current conundrum.... Will GP find funds to give Manga a total £28m fighting fund after sales, or will he have to pull spending right back and clear some debt.? My post was gut feeling (I'm not as ITK as most of you guys) but we're in the mire with a mainly worthless squad (apart from Sarr and JP) and looking like mid table again next season, so how GP moves next will be very interesting after a thoroughly rubbish season... I guess we'll soon see.....
I've mentioned paying a fee for perhaps 5 players; considering how many players we'll probably be rid of that's me estimating on the low side. I'm not sure just 3-4 would be enough considering how many players we'll have to replace and how crap we've been. Burnley paid fees for 12 players last summer, we might not do that but the squad needs updating as much as possible. Bielik could have been signed on loan last summer but we didn't - would be a bit odd to buy him for 2mil now. Another 5mil on a GK would seem an odd use of our limited funds (not that it stopped us with Okoye) Collins will definitely cost more than 1mil! I'd also be pleasantly surprised if Whiteman cost as little as 3.5mil, even with 1 year left on his deal. I'd also be tempted to go for Hamer instead for likely a similar potential fee if Coventry don't go up.
Derby only wanted to loan Bielik and were banking on getting promoted. Hamer will be more than 3.5m. Been linked with PL moves for £10m+ Cooper will be a future PL keeper from what I’ve seen of him. Would be well worth it.
Has he been demonised or is it just that fans don’t believe he will really get the chance to call the shots, no matter how good or bad he is ? A crap season but it has lead to a very interesting summer. Pick the right manager, convince him to join, and then build/recruit a competitive team with a meagre budget in a competitive market, with Gino having the final decision on everything. Will be a hell of a challenge.
Yeah, everywhere. Source: trust me bro. (I actually don't think he has, I was just aping another poster)
Interview with Ben Manga (via Sport1 in Germany) SPORT1: Mr. Manga, what is your conclusion after the first six months at Watford FC? Ben Manga: Of course we all hoped for more. My team and I made too many mistakes. So we have to accept that we're only eleventh at the end of the season. We don't look for mistakes in others, only in ourselves. We didn't manage to perform and finish at least sixth. I completely include myself. We will try to learn from these mistakes. SPORT1: What mistakes do you chalk up above all? Manga: I may have underestimated the league a bit when I started my tenure. Every country plays a different football. I thought that the new signings in winter could help us right away. But the leap into the championship is very big. When I was still under contract with Eintracht Frankfurt, I hardly followed the league. So this was new territory. Now I've got to know the league and I know what types of players are in demand. My team and I want to do better in the future. SPORT1 : What distinguishes the championship from the Bundesliga? Manga: The game type and level of the championship is something completely different. In this league, many intense duels are fought, some of which go beyond the target. However, the referees whistle very little. If you bring in a technically strong player who is called such fouls in other European leagues, then he first has to get used to the style and needs time to adapt. But if a player is brought in in winter, you don't have that time. That's why we have to pay even more attention to the types of players we bring in in the summer. SPORT1: Do you have to change your scouting, which earned you the nickname "Pearl Diver" in Frankfurt? Manga: Yes, I have to make adjustments because there is a different football being played in the championship. In the Premier League we could go back to players and types of players that my team and I brought to Frankfurt. In the Championship, however, a different wind is blowing. Not only the players but also we had to get used to it. SPORT1 : Can you dive in England for classic pearls * la Tuta, Evan N'****a or Daichi Kamada? Manga: It's not that easy. In England there is a rule that a player must have a minimum of 15 points to be allowed to play and work. If a professional plays in the top five European leagues, then he has fulfilled the requirement if he is a top division club. A second division player, on the other hand, would have to be a national player and appear regularly for his country. SPORT1: Do you have an example? Manga: Let's take the following case: Darmstadt 98 would have a Norwegian international as a second division team and Watford want to sign him. This professional would not get the points through the league, but through his national team. Norway is ranked higher than a player from Azerbaijan. With Erling Haaland and Martin *degaard, two absolute top stars in Norway play in the Premier League. That is why this country has a certain status in the evaluation. SPORT1: The upheaval on the field is still to come, but there is already clarity on the sidelines. For the new season you have signed Valerian Ismael, a well-known coach in Germany. What spoke for him? Manga: We did a profile and had a lot of conversations with sporting director Cristiano Giaretta and owner Gino Pozzo. In the end we decided on Valerien Ismael because we are convinced that his style, his work and his aura will benefit our project. We will do everything we can to support and strengthen him so that in the end we can achieve the goal that we have all set ourselves. We want to rise. SPORT1: On average, Valerien Ismael was with a club for just under six months. What do you say to the critics who don't think he's capable of a long-term commitment at Watford? Manga: We don't let things that come in from outside influence us. We're going through with it because we as a club are convinced of Valerien Ismael. Every club has its own ideas and visions. Based on this, a trainer is chosen. Ismael made the best impression in the interviews. That's why we chose him and didn't listen to the media. We believe in him and we will try to achieve our big goal of promotion to the Premier League together. SPORT1: You have to tackle the promotion race without Joao Pedro, he is moving to Brighton Hove & Albion for over 35 million. How did this big transfer come about? Manga: Joao Pedro was the best player in the championship in my opinion. He had the most potential in the league. Bigger Premier League clubs had expressed an interest but were a bit late. Pedro is now going to a club that has been doing very good work for years. For him, this step is perfect in our eyes. SPORT1: Of course, other clubs noticed that Watford received a lot of money for Pedro. Does that make it difficult to work on the transfer market? Manga: We'll keep trying to stay within our bounds. But of course there is supply and demand. If a player wants to come to us, but the releasing club has received four or five offers, then he can ask for a higher fee. So we are all aware that we have to pay one to two million euros more than we originally planned for a top player that we believe in. But we pay attention to our budget and don't want to spend more than we have available.
Thanks for posting. A bit concerning that he knew nothing about the league before joining and the sort of players he is used to recruiting wouldn't work well in the champ, or wouldn't get the work permits to work in the UK....
It sounds like Manga was involved in the January recruitment, then. Also seems like he was surprised that fancy-dans, or as SlavJo would call them: "pussies", aren't suited to Championship football. So he's taken that on board and now we're going all in at the other end of the scale, with VI's phycho-ball and a bunch of 7ft thugs led by the reanimated corpse of Troy Deeney (now with FA Level 1 coaching badge).
I suppose it's a bit refreshing to hear a club figure admit we botched a transfer window for once. Not that it wasn't completely obvious to everyone but still, it's nice for it to be openly acknowledged. I'm baffled how Bilic didn't get more of a say though. Surely when you don't know the league you defer to someone who does? I still think Manga's out the door sooner rather than later if he can't fulfil the club's number one goal - signing players for Gino to make a profit on as part of the player trading business.
Gino loves this guy, because he's saying it's pretty much all on him. Gino loves a fall guy. No way will he be sacked anytime soon.
As others have already said, firstly, this seems rather concerning for the feted Ben Manga to admit to having been brought in as a transfer and sporting matters guru (and yes, I am in the 'hype him up' camp in general), and secondly, this is our entire incoming January business laid out: 'Underestimating' or not, can we really say that it's fair to expect those players to make the required difference to turn a possibly-playoff-chasing-but-faltering team into automatic promotion contenders, as was stated as our goal and belief several times? It seems almost disingenuous to claim that, if they'd just been able to handle the Championship's physicality better, they would have done exactly what they needed to, given the profile of several of them and the performance levels we subsequently saw or, indeed, did not see. There was no issue with Assombalonga's awareness of what was required, say - that was not the problem. It was his poor level of play and sheer lack of fitness that did it. Similarly, Hoedt had no problems with physicality and knows the English game very well indeed, but was still shyte. All the progressive players that were brought in were children with almost no senior experience, relatively-speaking. Some disappointed even compared to fairly proportionate expectations (Araujo, predominantly, of course) but again, are we really suggesting they form an intelligent, appropriate transfer package that the hierarchy really believed would ever have had any chance of having the required effect on our team and, as a result, the league?
One thing we definitely need to get right is the loan market. Get some in that aspire to be good enough to play in the PL, not the ones that already proved they aren't up to it.
That's exactly the mistake I said I thought they were making in January, which I got criticism for. It's also the response I said I expected him to have, when others were already entirely writing him off based on January. It's still a concern that the club allowed such a window to happen, mind, and that he couldn't realise such things before the January window, even if he only had a few weeks prep time.
He only said the first two parts of that - he did not say that he didn't know beforehand that the UK had different work permit rules. The question about work permits was put to him separately, and he explains it in a manner which indicates that he knew what the rules were.
Well Araujo and Ferreira were obviously signings which Costa would have had a major part in, and Costa is his main scout and right-hand woman, so I thought that was pretty clear already to a degree.
