Edwards Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Cthulhu, May 11, 2022.

  1. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I'm sure I've never done that and used those words - and sure enough having searched through old posts to double check there is indeed nothing.

    Great example setting yet again there admin...
     
  2. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    I had to delete one of your posts in relation to Cassetti's Beard where you called him a freak. Your memory is amazingly selective.
     
  3. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Same. Well, they called me tenderloin, but same principle.
     
  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Aah, you have indeed jogged my memory - but it was cyaninternetdog, and my comment was entirely justified considering they were following me round the forum blowing me kisses.

    Plus once saying it to one poster is different to your claim that it was "posters" plural. And I haven't used the other word.
     
  5. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    My memory is pretty reliable and I remember the term being used. Pity I did not screenshot the post so I can drag it up months later to prove a point like a couple of posters on here. Maybe two peas in the same pod.

    One or two posters even felt the need to move off the forum as a result of your condescending smarm and barbs.
     
  6. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Considering you seem keen to do so, then you should, considering I don't think that happened.

    I can't control the over-sensitivities of others.

    Plus I wouldn't be surprised if other posters felt the same way about you tbh.
     
  7. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    We’re agreed then? 9 games, 7 of which are during the turbulent transfer window, are enough to make a definitive decision on a manager’s ability.

    So if we get someone new in during the international break, when is that manager’s 9 game trial complete? Asking so I can mark it in my diary.
     
  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Wild stab in the dark here, but probably after 9 games.
     
  9. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    It will be 10 games if it's during the international break.
     
  10. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    Brilliant - wish I’d thought of that! Any idea of what date that is?
     
  11. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    If we lose to Sunderland (if it goes ahead) he will be gone I think. One win in six games for a "promotion chasing side"? He'll be gone before his dinner is cooked.
     
    Cassetti's Beard likes this.
  12. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    We are to be fair.
     
    lowerrous and UEA_Hornet like this.
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    World Cup break seems fair time to assess manager performance I would think.
     
  14. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    So don’t stick by him and give him time, like we all wanted? No wonder other fans think our club and fans are basket cases!
     
  15. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Well this squad is considered a promotion squad - presumably you'd agree with that. If at the World Cup he is 14th and 8 points off the playoffs would you say he'd have done a good job?

    I could be persuaded to give him more time in that scenario were it not for the fact if we don't go up this year, JP and Sarr will be gone, the loanees will leave and the club will be embroiled in heavy debt with zero assets. Promotion this year is vital to offset the horrendous damage Pozzo has done, and unfortunately that gives Edwards less time imo.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  16. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    I thought we were rebuilding, to give Edwards the time needed to do that, irrespective of the putative quality in the squad (which may not be as high as we think).
    We’ve changed managers an insane amount over the last three seasons and it’s barely worked once, so irrespective of the squad performance after less than 8 weeks, the evidence is that changing the manager for the umpteenth time is unlikely to help greatly.
     
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I honestly don't think we have time for a rebuild - I'd love it to be the case. I think it's promotion this year, or the club's state will be a bottom 6 championship club due to Pozzo's dreadful stewardship. I guess we can do the rebuild if we are happy to start from a much lower base next season, but otherwise this seems the final year where a new manager bounce might be vital if we are stalling. Just my view.
     
    Jon G likes this.
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    But as is often said, the sackings are almost always right, it’s the hiring that was wrong. The exception being Hodgson, who should’ve been sacked long before the end of his contract, but the club had made themselves a complete and utter laughing stock by then and couldn’t do it.

    Edwards had one good season in league 2, it is more than plausible he just isn’t up to it. It doesn’t have to a binary choice between our awful owners being to blame or the manager.
     
  19. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    We were the bookmakers favourites for promotion for a reason. Taking out Edwards now probably would help steady the odds
     
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    We were over rated as we had Sarr and Pedro whilst being a relegated team ?

    Bookies wouldn’t take into account who else we had in the squad and what quality .

    Presume we are still one of the favourites now .

    We don’t need to bother ourselves with the bookies.

    Can see with our own eyes what performances are like .
     
  21. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    We have dropped significantly. Startup up at 77 points expectation, down at 70 now which seems fair. Gone from favorites to 4th/5th favs.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  22. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Gino Pozzo being given another £100m? No thanks, I'm happy with Championship football again next season. Edwards in.
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Sometimes the hirings were wrong, but sometimes I don't think any manager would succeed under the conditions, maybe Edwards will prove to be a complete flop, but I'm definitely gearing towards the former for now
     
    Jon G likes this.
  24. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    What I don't understand was if we wanted this brand new start and a young British manager to establish an identity, why didn't we go for someone who had built and showed progression over a few seasons at a lower level?

    After Forest Green's form fell off a cliff and they limped over the line last season there was always the worry that he might just be a flash in the pan who stumbled across a winning formula rather than a top quality young coach.

    There's been nothing to suggest he's up to the job so far other than seeming like he wants to be mates with the players and giving nice interviews. We've been comprehensively outplayed several times and he's just sat on his hands as though just hoping that things would improve.

    I suspect the reason why he's with us is the same reason a lot of people are. He was the cheapest option, coming off his first senior coaching contract at a L2 club, and only bringing his Scouse mate with him.

    He clearly has no idea how he wants us to play, he might have a preferred style but with the squad he's been served up it doesn't work and his Plan B is to just keep trying to play that way even though there are gaping holes all over the pitch.

    Would love him to turn it round and shove these words down my throat but each week that passes I'm more confident he won't.
     
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  25. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    I read all this stuff about how Edwards isn’t up to the job, and then I think to how I and my friends/contemporaries run our firms.

    I know of no other business that would throw in a person to a position of responsibility, tell him/her it is up to him/her to get his/her team operating successfully, then keep that team in a state of flux and uncertainty for 8 weeks, before declaring, less than two weeks after the team was settled, and significantly before the usual 6 months probation/settling in period, whether s/he was “up to the job”. Still less if I had no inkling of the challenges this individual was facing behind the scenes. No well-run company expects instantaneous improvement from a new employee, except a football club and, specifically, its fans.

    I know football is somehow different, but interpersonal and team dynamics are not, nor is the concept of an individual needing time to settle in to a new work environment. So why, other than the blind impulse for instant and lasting results (rare in any field) should we be judging this man so swiftly? Who among us would feel that such instant judgement was appropriate for us, if we took a new post in our own fields?

    My limited experience in moving jobs is that I needed time to settle, figure out how things worked in the firm, and then start to produce, once I was comfortable in my environment. I see no difference here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  26. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Hasn’t he been quite critical at times though in interviews post match but guess that only goes so far if players don’t take it on board .
     
  27. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Potter is obviously the extreme example, but he spent his time honing his craft in Sweden winning several things, then moved on to Swansea then of course Brighton. He showed sustained promise and progress over a period of time. I think Edwards was just yet another example of the club looking to try and do what they think they should be doing, but on the cheap and without really fully understanding why they’re actually doing it.

    We've always appointed managers for the here and now and unfortunately I don’t think Edwards is any different in that regard, quick, we need a young British manager, ermmm he’s done well for a season he’ll do! If we’re ever going to move forward the club need to identity a manager with a decent track record and a clear record of success over a sustained period.
     
    J.B likes this.
  28. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I don’t know, I mean do you normally get to be the CEO of Tesco after managing one of the stores for a year?
     
  29. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    More like Poundland.
     
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  30. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Not sure why I didn’t think of that as the example.
     
    Keighley likes this.
  31. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Analogy doesn't work. More like doing a good job running the little kiosk at the Tesco Petrol station then being given the managers role at the Tesco Extra in Hemel
     
  32. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    You think we are the equivalent of Tesco? ;););)
     
  33. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    Not a bad analogy, assuming that they are fundamentally the same job, just increasing in scale and responsibility. In which case, my points remain.
     
    WatfordTalk likes this.
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Well Watford aren’t the biggest football club in the world, but we must be in the top 100, are Tesco? They’re not exactly Aramco.

    But see Keighley’s Poundland suggestion above, which is definitely more apt.
     
  35. Jon G

    Jon G Academy Graduate

    I had to look up Aramco. Turns out, they’re not a supermarket. Tesco is the 5th biggest food retailer in Europe, and the largest in the UK.

    As I say above, the analogy needs to take into account the nature of the jobs. It’s a bigger, more responsible, job, yes. But so is pretty much any promotion in any business. It’s certainly not the huge leap in responsibility and change in actual role implied by your analogy.

    As such, I return to my original point - in any promotion the new incumbent is, and should be, given sufficient time in the role to settle in and make it their own. I see no difference here.
     

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