Grenfell Tower Enquiry - Capitalism Kills

i would think being a bit careful what is posted is wise given the potential for criminal proceedings

given people died some tasteful posting is probably also appropriate but it does appear from the links kindly provided there has been systematic failures all over the place

 

To be honest I see this all the time in the public sector. Unless they're front line staff that almost have a calling for the role, there appears to be a general "that'll do" attitude. I don't know what it is, maybe the rigid promotion structure and lack of reward for a good job done culture. The lack of oversight when dealing with money grabbing private companies is the real downfall to outsourcing tasks.

It's probably not a popular opinion but I think paying more to attract decent managers, with more defined performance related pay is the only way to break the cycle. Whether this is affordable at the moment is another matter.

 

The BRE are apparently very keen to retain business and keep their clients happy these days. It was them who, after the catastrophic failure of the first test on the panels, suggested the thing to do was to face them up with asbestos. Doing that, allowed a very dodgy 'pass' to be given, which the company siezed upon.

There was a great moment when the MD of the manufacturers smugly asserted that the test with the asbestos plate was valid and that the plastic interior filling was not being tested, only the exterior. Any material could be used for the insulation filling he said.

The prosecution barister asked him whether, in that case, dynamite could be used as a filling.

Answer: <splutter>

Well it made a difference from "don't know", "can't remember" and "didn't consider it my responsibility".

 

Ok, but even the most motivated public sector staff are going to be floored by outright lies told by the private sector when it comes to specialist materials.

Public sector complacency doesn't come from a 'rigid promotion structure'. Public sector organisations have competitive processes for even the most modestly paid admin jobs. The real problem are the working constraints. The Government has had the public sector by the goolies for a decade or more now and there is little money for a moment's thought or innovation. Everything is simply get through the piles of work. You can pay for better managers sure, but they won't be able to do anything about the 40% contraction in the sector other than work 8-6 getting by. Neither Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos could make much change.

 

Absolutely agree. They can lie through their teeth and there is no accountability at the moment. We need people of a decent calibre to negotiate and enforce the contracts for us. Government and local authority work shouldn't be the cash cow it is.

 

The public sector has shrunk 40% in the last 10 years??

 

Local Government I was referring to. The rest of it hasn’t of course. I could have expressed it better.

 

I am sure that it depends from government Department to Department, and from role to role, but I have found almost the complete opposite in my current situation in the Dept For Education.

I started in the civil service a few years ago as I wanted to just have a role where I thought I could make a bit of difference, but without the travelling, long hours I had to endure in the private sector, with responsibilities for my employees livlihoods. I was finding it a strain, if I'm honest. I looked at public service, and I honestly expected to have a constant battle with malingerers and the sort of "that'll do"attitude you describe. I was totally wrong in the areas I am working in, but that does not include procurement of goods, although does include procurement of services. And, by the way, the private services, mainly IT consultants and program implementation managers have been mostly brilliant as well.

I have been absolutely blown away by the dedication and hard work my DfE colleagues have been putting in. I tend to work in the middle to senior manager environment and collaborate daily with DCMS, Dept International Trade, Cabinet Office, and HMT, and in the last 3 years in my 4th role with 4 different teams, I can only remember one employee who had that "that'll do" attitude (she was an SEO who moved to Defra, thankfully). And the responsibility felt to do the right thing for the kid's education is an enormous burden that they have all taken seriously. I have found the standard of employees, right through from the lowest I have dealings with, through to Director General, to be amazingly good.

Recruitment of excellent managers isn't difficult in the rigid process led system, but it does mean that to progress a person normally has to move into a different section or directorate, meaning that expertise is lost. Many would like to be promoted within their team as they enjoy it and are motivated by it what they do, and are knowledgeable and experienced, but the recruitment process, intended to stop favouritism and discrimination, means that valuable specific sector experience is nearly always lost as they move up the ladder, to be replaced by someone who has to start from scratch. It is my biggest bugbear.

Most of my colleagues work more hours than they are paid for, through choice, but we do get the flexitime which is a real perk, but often not available for front line staff who have to cover a desk or phone. I would suggest that most of us are also owed annual leave. I'm currently owed 20 days from last year, with little prospect of taking it in addition to my current years A/L.

So, I think generalisations of public service are wrong, and I fully admit that I was wrong in my own views on this subject, up to 5 years ago.

 

Thatcher gets an awful of blame but the loss of those uniquely skilled and dedicated scientists/engineers/technicians and technologists (and the legislative power they wielded)...

 

Yes. People really should be going to jail for what happened. A lot of people, and for a lot of time.

We're way beyond stretching the truth here.

 

That's good to hear, it seems there is more reward to be had in working in education than in housing, people on the whole are more intelligent and generally things are more competently done, but I enjoyed working in the latter as you get to mix with people of all sorts of backgrounds and outside your limited social circle.

 

I'm not sure why you think I have a limited social circle.

 

No doubt the marxists that hold sway in the Fire Brigades Union are already plotting strike action if the enquiry dares to attach any responsibly for the scale of the tragedy on the fire chief who appears to have had a shocker on the night

 

Looks like your grasp of the realities of the relationships between Matt Wrack and the senior management teams of the country's fire and rescue services is on a par with that road deaths and c19 infection.

 

Are you saying the FBU won't back their man?
No idea what road deaths and covid have got to do with it!

 

I meant “your” in a general sense, sorry I know it doesn’t apply to everyone!

 

Is he their man? Aren't the bosses usually not in the union? In the police the federation cuts off at Chief Inspector rank.

 

To be honest, it wasn't just the chiefs. There were all sorts of errors by ordinary firefighters too. They were heroically brave of course, but silly mistakes that cost lives either through poor training or just personal mistakes. EBA crews for example are told they must always stick in pairs. Listening to one give evidence and lost his mate in the smoke, but pressed on alone regardless. Very brave and very heroic, but the rules about sticking together are there for many reasons.

Another pair went to a flat where they were told 6 people were trapped. They got 3 of them out, but didn't check for the rest. They say they were told by the resident that everyone was out, the resident denies it. But anyway, their rules say they're supposed to check. The 3 left behind all died.

Bugger failings in the leadership at all levels. One chief in particular, who arrived early on the scene, delegated himself 'press officer' (it's in the regulations you know) and wandered around taking photos instead of making himself useful.

They set up a 'control centre' in a van and a sort of base in the lobby of the building. The firefighter teams would arrive at the control centre van and be given a mission in response to a 999 call and then on arriving at the lobby base would be ordered to go on the hoses instead.

The confusion and lack of coordination between ALL the emergency services was shocking. None of them, for example, advised the other two when they unilaterally declared it a major incident - all hopelessly late declarations it goes without saying.

Well anyway, one thing you can say for the emergency services is at least they tried their best and with good intentions. Their failings pale in comparison with those of the irresponsible and incompetent manufacturers, council, TMO, inspectors, contractors, architects etc.

 

Oh I see. Thanks. I wonder if that was what Bore'em Stiff meant? His posts are often quite 'cryptic'!

 

I would say that is the bare minimum the public is entitled to expect

 

All this and what you described earlier sound chillingly like Hillsborough, lack of clear communication and leadership as the tragic events unfolded and incompetence at the top leading to it all as various people were placed in positions they didn't have the experience or qualifications for. The difference is that this happened due to criminal negligence, and whereas people like to blame a decaying stadium and the terraces for what happened at Hillsborough, it may have still happened in a larger all-seater stand.

 

It’s probably incredibly simplistic. But why couldn’t the government directly fund housing associations to buy out all the owners of residential buildings, (freeholders and leaseholders), with this type of cladding, and fund it’s removal. The leaseholders have to then buy somewhere else, and the housing associations get an increase in stock to rent out on full market rental terms.

The housing associations pay back the government over say thirty five years with the rental money from the new tenants. After all that’s basically how housing associations ended up owning council housing stock. Take out a large loan paid back over a long period secured against future rental income.

Housing associations are basically very large private landlords, with the skills to rent out a large number of units, and to manage the procurement of the remediation work. They get a lot of stock to boost their business and to be able to redevelop the portfolio and to cross subsidise their social housing estates.

A lot of leaseholders get out of terribly worrying situation.

The building industry gets a guaranteed workload for many years.

The Bank of England are happy as unlike other public spending this government money actually earns some interest and secured against a real asset. That recent history would suggest will appreciate in Value.

The government gets credit for at least sorting out the problem.

 

I can't understand why it's not the manufacturers responsibility.

They advertised it as suitable for tower blocks. It's not. It was unsuitable for the purpose to which it was sold. Remove it and refund the money you were paid for it in full.

 

You make it sound so simple. And you're absolutely right, it is. Or it should be

 

I think it’s because the material was specified and approved by building control departments. None of these buildings used the materials without getting its use signed off in a planning application. They required the increased thermal properties, and approved the materials use in the way it was applied. They governmental agencies basically said it was fine and in some circumstances insisted it was used.

its now turned out to be the latest failure, like the constant use of Asbestos in buildings throughout the 1970s and 1980s.

 

Anyone see the C4 documentary about this the other night?

I think it was called 'the untold story'. I've listed to the BBC enquiry podcasts and so it was very interesting to match faces to voices.

Absolutely heartbreaking of course. The same as the podcasts. Very interesting film of the residents' efforts to try to get a meaningful response from the TMO and council - they got the stone wall. I come against this all the time. 'The voice of silence' we call it. You just get ignored or platitudes.

Eventually they got their councillors in and even their useless MP. I dearly hope that Baroness Borwick (Con) was watching that last night and saw just how slimy her performance was when her poor constituents asked her for help. In cut crystal tones she advised the residents that "befawww we get started" they should be clear that she was absolutely powerless and could/would do nothing whatsoever to help them. She took the side of the council wallahs and tried to make it look like the tenants were telling untruths and changing their story. It was such a clear example of the modern Lady Gradgrind in her full public service pomp, that I was inspired to google her.

She went to a private girls boarding school called 'Wispers' in some massive mansion in the countryside in Sussex, you imagine like St Trinians but without the suspenders. It doesn't say she went to university, so perhaps that was it for education.

Then 'event management' for a while (arranging the caterers darling, you know), before going on to fund raise for the Tory party (all those parties darling!) and then getting given her safe seat of Kensington and Chelsea (it's not what you know darling...).

Her father was a Baron, but she got double baronetted when she got married to the 5th Baron Borwick who is a hereditary peer.

Her maiden name was Poore and interestingly, her father was some sort of playboy racing driver type. He was called Roger Poore and he was most famous for sticking the final nail into the coffin of the British motorcycle industry with the disastrous NVT company. According to wiki: "his reconstruction and redundancy plans were heavy-handed and some regarded him a little more than an asset-stripper. What is clear is that his actions led to the fragmentation of the industry when consolidation was essential to save the day.[6]"

His father before him was a Lt Colonel, also called Roger Poore, who got killed at Paschendale in WW1. You can suppose as a Lt Colonel he came from a well to do family, as the 'officer class' did at that time. Here is a plaque which is in Salisbury cathedral apparently;

LIEUT COL ROGER ALVIN POORE DSO/ ROYAL WILTSHIRE YEOMANRY/ THIRD SON OF MAJOR ROBERT POORE/ AND JULIANA BENITA CORRY HIS WIFE/ OF OLD LODGE HANTS/ MARRIED LORNE MARGERY DENNISTOUN/ 9TH DECEMBER 1913/ SERVED IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN WAR (1899-1900)/ WITH THE 3RD MOUNTED INFANTRY/ IN THE GREAT EUROPEAN WAR/ WHILE IN COMMAND OF THE 2ND BATTN/ 3RD WELCH FUSILIERS/ WAS KILLED AT THE BATTLE OF PASSCHENDAEL/ 26TH SEPTEMBER 1917/ "FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH"

So the father before that, going back into Victorian times was a Major and lived in somewhere called 'The Old Lodge'. The trail runs cold after that, but as ever it's one long line of privilege and riches right through to the present.

You'd suppose the Borwick children will be doing rather well for themselves too and so on through the generations.

 

Oh and just as a little addendum, the Baroness is also president of the British Antique Dealers Association and is on a "mission" to keep the ivory trade alive. She says that attempts to ban ivory trading are "cultural vandalism". She says there are too many elephants in the world anyway. OK I made that last one up.

Here is a list of the Poores - Barons one and all...

• Sir John Methuen Poore, 1st Baronet (1745–1820)
• Sir Edward Poore, 2nd Baronet (1795–1838)
• Sir Edward Poore, 3rd Baronet (1826–1893)
• Sir Richard Poore, 4th Baronet (1853–1930)
• Sir Edward Poore, 5th Baronet (1894–1938)
• Sir Herbert Edward Poore, 6th Baronet (1930–2004)
• Sir Roger Ricardo Poore, 7th Baronet (born 1930)

 

For the sake of balance I believe that you should change your name by deed poll to 'Riche' and spend your retirement as an activist/journalist posting your copy to youtube.

YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE.

 

Son Thomas "Tom" Borwick also works for the Tory party as one of those cyber creeps that does push advertising and Facebook jiggery pokery. University of Virginia (Langley campus no doubt), then all mixed up with dodgy UKIP characters before and serving as communications director for the Vote Leave campaign.

On the positive side, the posh spook wannabe did take a hell of a beating from three muchachas in high heels and mini skirts while queuing for KFC (?!) in Leicester Square. Neither the minimum wage chicken servers, nor the workers in the casino next door would offer sanctuary! Just tragic!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...unconscious-girl-gang-kfc-queue-10381364.html

 

How crap must they be as a family to not get promoted in 275 years...

 

Here's Lady Borwick's voting record. 22 votes to cut benefits! Wow. I bet she was gutted at missing the one vote she was absent for. Probably clashed with Henley Regatta or something.

A selection of Victoria Borwick’s votes
See full list of topics voted on

• Generally voted against more EU integration
• 3 votes for, 16 votes against, 4 absences, between 2015–2017.
• Consistently voted for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
• 22 votes for, 0 votes against, 1 absence, between 2015–2016.
• Voted against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords
• 0 votes for 1 vote against

 

Some interesting stuff in the enquiry of late.

Hopeless Danni whatever her name was who was commissioner of the LFB claimed she would "change nothing" of how the brigade responded on the night. She said the fire was completely unprecedented and was the same as Elvis landing in a spaceship.

The new commissioner, Andy someone, seems a lot more competent. It has become clear that from previous fires and many other sources, the LFB knew all about the dangers of cladding fires and the possible failure of compartmentation. Andy admitted they had "failed to join the dots" and also that there had been a decline in the brigade's standards since 2007 and that they suffered from a little bit of arrogance. Those things all happened under Danni's watch.

Now we very interestingly start to hear how government were incompetent. Didn't understand, didn't care enough and allowed their businessmen and business lady mates to run amok with completely inadequate and ignored legislation.

The building industry was very important and so the government were the 'junior partner' in the relationship with the builders. Legislation was loosened or not implemented - sometimes because of the ludicrous 'one in, one out' policy for legislation they thought up. If there's a new regulation, another old one has to be scrapped. Sounds great in the headlines and popular with the 'freedom loving' business folk of course, but not so good for us poor people who end up having our homes wrapped in super flammable plastic.

You cannot, absolutely cannot, trust the Tory party to look after ordinary people before those of their business pals.