At present, I’m not willing to concede they will only be bit part players as I see no reason for that being the case now the window has shut. As to their leaving in Jan, I think that may depend on how likely or otherwise promotion looks. And I think Gray will add more at this level than many seem willing to consider. But if your suspicions turn out to be valid, then I, along with most others, will be mightily pi55ed off.
Yes absolutely . I’m sure the best players in our squad will be bit part players and Andre Gray , the former championship player of the season will have zero impact . The illogical nonsense continues unfortunately
I would say....our season starts from this point onwards. We've been hampered by the transfer window (like all clubs) but we had a lot more disruption than most, as a lot of our players were sort after. Now we know exactly the team we have for the rest of the season (well until January at least). It's a solid starting point. Yesterday, and playing on a Friday, I thought was a disadvantage as we lost Sarr because he was travelling back. But now the game is over, we can sit back and enjoy an extra days recovery over everyone else, as our next game is not unit Wednesday. To get 10 points, with all this doubt and disruption, is huge credit to Ivic and the players. From this point forward, I can only see things improving. 41 games to go. We pick up 80 points (around 2 points per game) we're up comfortably. (there wont be another two clubs who will get more than 90 points imo) So, we're bang on target, with 10 points from 5 games. We will get stronger with exiled players returning, whereas I don't really see too many other clubs who can realistically make that claim. Right now.....things are looking good for us.
Well, if you're just going to dismiss it out of hand, then I'm not the one being illogical. If you are prepared to see how our owners do business, time and time and time again and then assume it will somehow be different next time, then it's quite ironic that you feel entitled to mock me in a superior tone. How many games between now and January? How many times will Sarr have a slight problem, or small illness, or just not feeling it? He's gonna be wrapped in cotton wool whilst Gino spends 2 months ringing every top club in europe to try and sell him. Gray is ****. I'm not having this debate with people again. It's been done to death.
That’s an interesting call...feel free to remind us of it at the end of Jan. It’s possible he could get a real injury of course, like the hammy he pulled last season, but I assume you mean he will have a succession of ‘minor knocks’?
I guess some of us will assume his injuries are real, others will assume they aren't, especially if he's suddenly fit to play for a new club the day after he's sold.
Why bother to start Sarr against Luton and Reading, in the middle of the transfer window, if the plan is to sell him?
If he obviously gets a real injury, like a hamstring, then he probably won’t play more than 10 games seeing how concertina’d the season is; but it will be disappointing if he gets pulled out of the squad regularly for convenient minor issues.
I agree Quina probably had his best game so far this season last night, but he tends to give up if he loses the ball, you can actually see his shoulders drop, when what he is trying to do goes wrong. He needs to get a bit more resilience about him and not just give up, then hopefully his real potential might start to shine through and we might actually have a decent player on our hands.
He's hardly likely to say that we were brilliant and he has given the team the week off. He was guarded in his comments and even said some positive things (you should try it sometime, it will be good for your soul). Go on, say something positive about the club. I'll give you one you can C+P: "We have played 7.5 hours of football and Foster has barely had to make a save"
And I’m not interested in having a debate about the quality of Gray either. I can however point out when you are taking utter drivel .
Thought it was pretty clear the plan has been he'll stay unless his asking price is met? Boro he only just got back from Senegal and hadn't fully reintegrated with the team. What the reason for his trip was neither of us know, but those are the facts. Sheffield Wednesday he was apparently available but didn't make the squad. Maybe he was close to a move that fell through? Derby he (apparently) got back an hour before the coach left. Back too late, same as Sierralta. I'm sure the board know how important Sarr is to our hopes this season, hence why they didn't budge on his asking price. And they certainly know how important it is financially to get back up, both for us as a club and them personally. It makes zero sense to hold on to our best player with a prohibitive price tag, to then waste him for 3 months. What do you think the plan is? Play him sparingly and hope a big club suddenly has much more funds available in January? What's the point? Tin foil hat stuff, this.
Does Sarr not actually need to be playing football and doing reasonably well if we want to demand at least £30m for him?
We shall see, I guess. To me it seems clear as day what our owners are doing, though it's well established that I don't trust their motives. As I said in another thread, if Capoue, Hughes and Sarr are available for 90% of the season we will do well. I just don't trust our owners' priorities. I think we are in deep financial **** due to their profligacy and they are panicking. Prioritising getting cash in over the team. Tin foil, maybe. It seems rational to me, but then I'm a deeply unstable person.
I agree up to a point but they could have sold Sarr for, say £30m if they were that desperate for cash in the short term. He may break a leg in training on Monday and they might end up getting zero for him. I think we are in financial problems, many but not all of our own making, but £25-30m would punch a big whole in it, now, rather than a possible bigger but deferred pay day later
But that doesn't really make sense on their end? They surely know promotion is worth more than getting Capoue's wages off the books? If they were simply after a quick buck they could have slightly lowered Sarr's price and removed him from the squad, entirely. Why risk him against Luton's thugs? They could have accepted Valencia's offer of a Freddo for Capoue, they could have put Hughes and JP up for sale, and sold Sema for a few million to a club in Serie A.
I think you’re right in what you say, but isn’t that just the nature of relegation? Our last reported yearly revenue was £140m, this year it will be parachute payments of £50m plus whatever extra revenue we end up with, £5m from the tv deal and maybe a couple more million taking Covid into account and that’s being optimistic. So our revenue will have over halved. The owners deserve all the criticism they get for getting us relegated, but beyond that it’s just a symptom of the actual reality of being relegated. There is every chance Saar, Capoue, Hughes etc could be sold in January, I don’t really think that’s bad management it’s just the reality of taking a catastrophic hit to your income.
Ivic has explained why Sarr was out of contention for the game yesterday: https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/18801748.vladimir-ivic-annoyed-watfords-friday-fixtures/ The theory Sarr is being held back from selection by Gino only works if it’s also agreed Ivic is in on the plan and openly lying in public to cover it up.
It's not all black or white. Sure they held firm over Sarr to a degree and also stuck to their guns on getting a fee for Capoue. Now that could be because they feel the players are more valuable to our side than the deals on offer, or that they feel confident that they can do better in the future window. Tbh I'm only talking about Sarr here. I think Capoue being on high wages but with a negligible resale value makes him less of a priority for trading. I reckon theres still a big dent in our finances and that they will be looking to fill that as a priority. To leave it open and bank it all on getting promoted is a risk. I don't think they will take that. They'll hope that Ivic can ********* us to the playoffs with Philips and Stevenson.
Depends how generous you want to be to the owners over the decisions they made which 1. Got us relegated and 2. Left us with a load of crap players who cost us fees but are worthless and on long contracts that no other club in their right mind would honour.
@nornironhorn can you please ban this user. I haven't even spoken to him and this level of unprecedented abuse makes me consider leaving the forum.