[SOLD] Luis Suarez

Fair enough, but what will you say if/when the window slams shut and our only activity is 2 or 3 more moved out and signings of the calibre of Murray, Perica and Garner inbound?

 

We have "options", they're just not very good ones.

 

but the fact is we dont know the financials of the deal at all? its no point getting worked up about it until we do. im not going to get into an arguing match here, we might just have to agree to disagree.

- if the owners are happy with the deal financially
- if the player doesnt want to be here
- if ivic feels he can get away without him being here

then maybe we are better off letting him go. i personally am not delighted to see hot prospects leave the club, but we got relegated and the money needs to come from somewhere. we were mismanaged for the last couple of seasons and the owners are paying the price for their stupidity. that being said they have gotten us out of the championship before and i think that with good sensible investment they can do it again. lets see what state the squad is in at the end of the window.

 

Bit confused by this point - as there are people on this forum and this thread who have said they have seen enough of him to know he would cut it here but you seem to be arguing against them even though you say you haven’t seen enough of him?

I think he’s clearly good enough from what I’ve seen of him and I think he has a game/style that would translate well. But I do agree that if he has no interest in being here, then it’s best to move him on. But we have to do a deal that’s best for us and not be doing favours for others.

Not all arguments can be correct - we have those on here saying we need to plug the financial hole as quick as possible but that doesn’t marry up with this deal if it’s as described...

I personally had hoped that’s Suarez might be apprehensive about staying but could be persuaded. I don’t think we should be selling him if that’s the case. But I suspect he’s made it clear he wants out knowing full well the manager won’t want to keep him with that attitude.

 

Ivic has said himself previously he had limited time to work on creating the team, accepts work needs to be done on the attack, and the 2 week international break provides time to do that.

 

honestly if they are the quality of murray then pretty disappointed. i think he was badly scouted and they just saw the goals, i think his legs have gone. he will be useful if we are chasing a game and need an instinctive goal scorer up top to grab us something but he should be nowhere near the starting 11. i think perica has something to prove, but he looks neat and tidy. useful as a squad player.

im not sure what you mean about garner though? i think he has started excellently. if we bring in another couple of young loanees with a point to prove then thats fine by me. i think garner could be our chalobah type player from that first season under the pozzos.

 

So much attention and emotion being wasted by our fanbase on a player who doesn't want to be here and who (spoiler alert) probably isn't as good as hes hyped up to be anyway

Just sell him if he doesnt want to be here, we already have better attackers who actually want to be here and play for us

 

i agree with that at the moment. even so with the lowest of expectations you wouldnt put it past deeney and gray both to grab between 5-10 goals and murray to get 5. i know you dont like deeney, but even with penalties alone he gets close to that mark lol.

 

Based on what?

 

I think it’s clear Murray was signed as experience because the club were pretty expectant that Deeney would be moving on. That hasn’t happened so it makes the Murray signing look weirder than I think it was intended to be.

 

Alex Geijo, Javier Acuna etc.

The idea that hes going to come here and score 20 goals in the Championship just because he scored a load in Spain's second division is extremely optimistic

 

you can go back and look at the acuna thread, people were saying the exact same thing. spanish football is very different to english football, particularly the championship. he may well be a success here but we simply have no way of knowing. if he doesnt want to be here then my opinion is to get him gone if the financials are right. im not advocating a bad deal, but if the owners feel it is ok then im fine with it.

 

If Gray is picked regularly, he will get more than 10 goals. His worst aspect is his touch and that’s a confidence issue I think.

He’s nowhere near as bad as some people make out, it’s just that we massively overspent on him.

 

i agree i think they panicked and brought in an experienced 'leader' type of player. he would not have been my first choice, or probably my fifth choice but hey if he scores 5 goals late on to save games then he probably becomes a cult hero.

 

That’s blind faith though.

 

again by and large @Burnsy we agree on most things. i think he will have a good season for us, i expect him to score goals.

 

I think it's more based on the fact that he's been being looked at by some very decent clubs, and now looks like he's going to go to a fairly solid La Liga side.

I think predicting he's not going to be any good is just an easy get out to make us feel better about it. From what I've seen of him, albeit limited, he looks to have all the attributes to go on to be a very good striker.

He could flop, but assuming he will doesn't really be seem to be based on anything personal to him.

 

So it’s based on two completely unrelated players?

It’s like saying clubs shouldn’t sign Brazilian strikers because look at Joelinton or Chelsea shouldn’t have signed Werner because of Sebastian Haller.

 

Ah yes because another player from that division wasn't good all the others must be **** as well. Outstanding logic.

Geijo was a journeyman who had shown on multiple occasions that he wasn't anywhere near good enough for La Liga. The season before he came to us he had scored half as many as Suarez did.

Acuna's was a slightly above average second division player. In his mid 20s with 16 goals and 1 assist.

Suarez was the second best striker in the division at 22, and the guy he outscored just moved for 20m but I'm sure the scouts from Barca, Atletico, Granada, Marseille and the Spanish / Columbian NT are just pretending to be interested in him though for ***** and giggles.

Clubs clearly see he has the potential to step up not just to the championship, but to European football. That doesn't mean he will do, but to write him off based on absolutely nothing is just brainless.

 

blind faith that they have probably earned over time. i dont think enough people give them credit where it is due. take away the last two seasons and they have been brilliant for the club. things have started to drift and hopefully this is the kick up the arse they need. its costing them huge amounts of money, but i have faith they can turn it around. thats not me being a happy clapper either, but if we can get promoted again then they have hopefully learnt some lessons. we have to give them until the end of the window and see what shape the squad is in.

 

Its not 'completely unrelated', its evidence that scoring goals in the Spanish 2nd division doesn't always translate into scoring goals in the English 2nd division

 

We rarely disagree these days, but when it comes to Gray I can't agree it's purely because of the fee we paid.

For me it's the fact that he just cannot do any of the basics to an acceptably frequent level. His passing is woeful, he trips over the ball, treads on the ball, can't dribble, scuffs it constantly. He's just such a limited, clumsy footballer.

He also used to be fast. He is not fast any more, like, at all. If as a striker you're pacey and get into good positions then some of the stuff above can be forgiven and matters far less, but he just has almost nothing to his game any more. He has definitely regressed.

 

How about you try reading what I actually said instead of getting upset about something you think I said

 

By and large I agree. But sadly we can’t take away the last two seasons - it’s just not possible. Perhaps before that they were worthy of blind faith but last season means that every decision they make will be scrutinised and rightly so.

 

Based on what? Gray has cut it at this level before, and with Perica it's a wait and see.

 

We’ll have to wait and see who is right on this one I think!

 

I read it clearly and decided it was a load of rubbish - as others have pointed out.

 

Well apparently I've only ever been right about one thing, so my odds aren't looking good.

 

as it should be, but they asked us to give them a transfer window to rebuild the squad. if suarez and estupinan are 'willing' transfers as a result then so be it. i have already said that ivic in my mind gets as long as he needs, im making no judgement on his or the teams performance until December. the board and the powers that be get until the end of the window to provide vlad with a squad that can challenge.

 

Well you didn't read it clearly enough then, as I neither said he was **** nor wrote him off

 

nah two things, you said tommy smith wasn't coming back for a third stint!

 

Gray is terrible and Perica looks about as dynamic as a table.

 

Yes - you made a strawman argument claiming he wouldn't score 20 goals and said I should looka at Acuna and Geijo as examples.

I have never claimed he would score 20. All I have said is that at this point in time I think he is the best striker at the club, which I think is a pretty low threshold. Given the clubs that are interested in him, there are clearly lots of people who have been paid to watch him who hold a similar opinion.

 

No I didn't, I said it was optimistic to think he would, not that he wouldn't

I never said you did...

In terms of pure strikers (i.e. putting JP and Sarr to one side) I'd say Welbeck is likely better but otherwise i'd probably agree that he is likely a better option than Gray or Deeney and almost definitely a better option than Murray

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if he doesn't want to be here though. Ivic has made it extremely clear that he only wants a squad of players who are 100% committed to being here and Suarez clearly isn't as he has better offers he wants to pursue elsewhere - good luck to him

 

I agree, mostly.

But, I'd rather have him in the team than Deeney. He was basically outclassed by better defenders last season as he has no "stand-out qualities at all, but think he may be good enough to be a goal threat in the Championship.
...maybe.