[SOLD] Abdoulaye Doucoure

Sigurdson went for £40 mill, Doucoure is better at what he does than Sig at what he does, and is younger. I'd ask for £50m and I think we'd get it.

 

And an outrageous release clause.

 

mazzarri wants to make him his first torino signing, so I hear.

 

I’d rather no release clause?

 

Little benefit for him signing a new contract without one surely?

 

Doubling his salary is quite a motivation I would have thought.

 

More money? And maybe making him captain next year as mentioned?

I agree he may be more agreeable to signing a deal with a release clause but that goes against Gino’s model of driving top dollar when the time comes. He has 2.5 years left to run and whilst I hope any new contract means he stays longer, realistically with his stock rising as it is, a new contract is just to make sure we can get a lot of money when he decides to further himself - a release clause stops the chance of a bidding war when that happens.

 

...and if he won't sign a contract to extend, we sell him in the summer ?

 

I see your point. But consider this. Watford take him from, say, £35k to £70k per week. That’s a couple of million extra quid a year. Very nice indeed. But if he continues to progress as he has and has confidence in his ability to do so, he’ll also know he could make that couple of million easily in an afternoon with a juicy signing on fee elsewhere. Plus chances are whoever signs him would take his salary much higher than our top offering too. So he’ll soon make up any lost ground.

If I were him I’d say I expect more money (no brainer) and I want a mutually agreeable release clause too. Even if that means the headline salary is less.

Plus with the club having paid £8m for him he’ll know there will always come a point where Gino won’t want to risk losing his initial outlay on a bosman. So he’d only have to sit tight for 12 months and chances are we’ll be letting him go anyway if he doesn’t sign a new deal. He holds most of the cards on this one.

The ‘Pozzo model’ stuff gets bandied about on here lots but the reality over nearly 6 years now is that it’s pretty chaotic.

Deeney definitely had/has clauses in his contract as otherwise why did the club give him new contracts in 3 successive summers? 100% there will be others. There’s been plenty of articles and blogs by football agents and journalists in the last few years about the topic that I can’t believe Watford are immune.

A release clause can still benefit both parties. It can be limited by when it’s active (eg. summer transfer window only), it can exclude certain clubs from the running (eg. other PL clubs) as well as setting a minimum price tag too. All those things help with succession planning and reducing disruption. It wouldn’t operate like the Spanish release clauses where it’s just a case of depositing the cash and the player is off.

 

Even if it was set at £100k? to even trigger it?

 

£100k? We spent more than that on Paul Mayo.

 

Rightly so. Legend.

 

My bad, I meant £100 mill.

 

Can Doucoure take a long throw like Paul Mayo? No evidence of it. Get rid.

 

Well, I don’t see Doucoure leaving this summer. Probably next though if he keep going at the rate he is. And in that case, if transfer fee’s continue on their current trajectory - then yes, even if it’s £100m. If Van Dijk can go for £75m, I have belief that an even further improved Doucoure can go for £100m+ in 18 months time.

Because of his stock keeps rising, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that...
Arsenal would want him...they should now!
PSG would want him to replace Motta...
Man Utd would want him to replace Matic...
Man City would want him to replace Fernandinho...

If it was the case that 2 of these clubs wanted him, why cap the amount they’d be willing to pay?

 

It doesn't have to be a cap, it's a minimum starting point, if it takes £100 mill to trigger but two want him, then let the auction begin.

 

Then yes, obviously. I don’t like clauses that cap values.

 

I think is agent would not be earning his fee if he allows a buyout clause as high as £100m. I would be surprised if he agrees to any buyout clause, but if he is offered sufficient wages, then maybe. If we are realistic, his ambition will be to play at a higher level, in due course. If we tie him down to a reasonable long term contract, we are covering ourselves in terms of a decent future transfer fee and getting an extended spell from an excellent player. With the extra wages and agent commission, all parties happy, for the time being.

Tricky things contract negotiations like these. Paying too much in wages can result in complacency, living the high life, Billy Big Boll0x syndrome, pressure, loss of form/hunger, sitting on your overly inflated salary etc. Couple that with the potential for injury and there are obvious risks. We are in the big league now people.

Not so long ago, a players current weekly wage would be considered a big transfer fee for us!

 

More attacking intent than Matic & more defensive nous than Pogba.

Could do well at Liverpool & Chelsea.

Fascinating to watch how Pozzo manages this.

The first 'Pozzo model' sale to a major club (or indeed anyone much apart from Sheff Wed).

Let's enjoy the time he's here.

 

Also credit is due to the Pozzo scouting system for finding him in the first place.

 

Oh ******* Jesus.........oh God.......somebody actually said Pozzo Mode.....oh Go......

 

You're getting way ahead of yourself there. Van Dijk has been courted by a number of Champion's League clubs. As good as Doucoure is, he has been outfought and outclassed by Man Utd's, Man City's and even Spurs' centre-mids whenever we've played them (I was actually rather surprised and disappointed). Dembele was dominating him when we played Spurs and he's just not quite as good as the likes of Matic or Fernandinho. He could be a rotation option for sides with title ambitions, as per say Ander Herrera, or at a stretch Gundogan, but he's only good enough to start as part of a midfield 3 for sides happy with just scraping top four (Ar*e and Liverpool basically). Given the fees paid for Sigurdsson and Van Dijk, a true fee reflective of his ability and the current market is more likely £40m-50m; he just doesn't have the profile for it to go any higher and tbh I'd still rather hope we kept him even at such a fee.

They're at about the same calibre of player I'd say. Sigurdsson plays slightly further forward and gets slightly more goals per season, which makes him a bit more glamorous, but you're still basically right with the fee given the current market.

 

He's very good and he's our best player but his passing stops him from being quite good enough for the top teams. Next time he plays, watch how many times there is a pass on that could be played through a smallish gap and would set a winger/full back/forward away but Doucoure turns back inside and plays it simply. In fairness, it's a skill in itself, recognising the limits of his ability but to go and be a starter at one of the top teams, his passing would need to be better than it is.

 

Passing-wise, is he miles off the likes of Xhaka or Bakayoko?

 

He's definitely more of a ball carrier than a dynamic passer, I agree. But part of that comes from the nature of those around him. I tend to think most players can easily look 10% better just by being surrounded by better players in a successful team.

 

Haven't seen enough of Bakayoko to make a judgment. I wasn't thinking of Arsenal when I said "top teams" but I would say that passing is probably the only part of the game where Xhaka is markedly better than Doucoure.

 

Exactly.

Doucs, unsurprisingly, has looked a little tired of late.

In the first 10 games, it struck me how often he played an aggressive forward pass.

I suspect he’s scored more goals than Sig/Xha/Baka put together.

 

I haven’t seen enough of them either, and Doucoure has definitely regressed slightly in the last few weeks. Whether that’s down to tiredness, the form of the team, or a mixture of both. And yet, he’s still our standout player, and probably our biggest goal threat.

 

You’ve totally ignored the bit where I’ve said if he keeps improving and transfer fees keep rising....

 

Isn’t that the job of a playmaker though? That’s basically what we have Peyrera on our team to do. It’s not Kante’s job to pick eye of a needle passes to the forwards but he’s still a phenomenal midfielder in a top 4 top, equally unlike Doucoure he never scores. I think because Doucoure Is by far and away or best player we expect him to be able to do anything and in fairness he probably can compared to our other players, but in a top four team he’d play a specific role that wouldn’t need him to do that sort of thing.

 

I’d say Cleverley is the captain in waiting.

 

I didn't ignore it - I responded to it by saying you're getting way too carried away, and you are. I'd bet my house on Doucoure never ever being a £100mil player.

 

Has this chubby lump left yet?

 

According to RMC Sport in France (not sure how reliable they are), we just rejected a €30m (€25m + €5m in bonuses) bid from The Snake for Doucoure.

http://sportwitness.co.uk/everton-e30m-offer-rejected-watford-player-wants-stay-extra-season/

 

Sky Sports have picked up the same story.

"Doucoure, 25, is said to be happy to remain at Vicarage Road for the forthcoming season."

Rumour or not, I think that's the first time we've heard that particular line come out of the club.