(HC) Xisco Munoz

Discussion in 'The Team Bus' started by The Recluse, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Fair. I remember there were other games he made quick subs to change things, or was able to make adjustments at HT to change the game, but I think it’s been overplayed in the years since.

    The counter to his mastery of tactical adjustments would be to question why he set us up in such a way that eventually required wholesale tactical changes. Fixing the mistakes is great, but I’d rather get it right from the start.
     
  2. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett First Year Pro

    There is some science behind the 60-65 minute substitutions however previously when Hughes (our most influential player) had been swapped for a jack of all trades player , and this is not meant as a dig
    at BW, it did not make sense. Surely better to say to WH , "we need you on the pitch as much as possible and we need to protect you at the same time so after 60-70 mins instead of checking out the new showers just sit in front of the 2 CBs and create a defensive triangle"?
     
  3. Leetanner

    Leetanner Academy Graduate

    At least chalobah got his booking so misses wycombe and forest back for the run in
     
  4. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Good in so much it’s one of our 4 central midfielders.
     
  5. Leetanner

    Leetanner Academy Graduate

    We have wycombe and forest to play sema can be his replacement
     
  6. Leetanner

    Leetanner Academy Graduate

    Dont always have to play 433 can switch to 4231 against those two teams if need be
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I think that moment is given undue weight but he was definitely tactically flexible. We played 3-5-2, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 at various points that season under him and not through injury enforced changes. He played four centre backs as the back four against Rotherham as he knew they'd just be lumping it in the mixer.

    And he would make early subs or change formation during games, it was just that substitution was the most memorable example. Pretty sure he changed our formation at half time in the 7-2 win against Blackpool.

    He definitely didn't always get it right and sometimes set us up wrong in the first place but at least he reacted to the things unfolding before his eyes and didn't think a left back for left back sub was the way to wrest control back from Bournemouth.
     
  8. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Reservist

    I understand the criticism of Munoz’s game management at times, but I don’t see what’s inherently wrong with “like-for-like” subs. Swapping a player for another player in the same position in the same formation doesn’t mean you are doing nothing to change the course of the game. Lazaar is a different player from Masina, just as Gosling is a different player from Chalobah, and if anything the former makes more sense in a game we were losing, because likely, Xisco reasonably thought Lazaar (who we’ve just signed so we have to try him at least occasionally) offered something to change the game that Masina, who is not the best at passing and going forward, doesn’t. There were other factors that contributed to our defeat more, some of which is beyond the manager’s control.
     
  9. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I’d have to disagree. We were losing the game and not creating much at all, the obvious upshot of going a goal down is that the opposition will also naturally then play more defensively, so a group of players and formation that had hitherto been ineffective will only become even more ineffective. When you’re losing the game you literally have nothing to lose, what does it matter if you lose 1-0 or 3-0? So you need to take more risks which involves swapping defensive players for attacking ones. We had three attacking players on the bench and yet we only brought one of them on with 7 minutes left, surely that makes no sense at all to anyone?

    The like for like subs would make absolute sense in a situation where you’re happy with the current result, but I can’t fathom how like for like subs can possibly makes sense when you’re presumably unhappy with it?

    On the flipside he’s also made subs in games when we’ve been playing well and winning that have then brought undue pressure on to us.

    All the evidence to me suggests he doesn’t really know what he’s doing and just makes subs purely for the sake of making them, rather than for a specific purpose or as a reaction to what is unfolding in front of his eyes.
     
    Happy bunny and Jumbolina like this.
  10. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Exactly, there's a time and a place for like for like subs, I'm not going to criticise his subs in previous games, but this game was crying out for someone like Zinckernagel...
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  11. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Why Zinckernagel? We were 1-0 down, i think we needed another striker on when the 1st subs were made as a goal was needed. He bought the striker on too late.
     
  12. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    Random thought: Has anyone seen the Apple TV show Ted Lasso with Jason Sudeikis? It's fairly silly but funny in a way. About this patently unqualified but relentlessly upbeat football manager working at the fictional Richmond FC (the show seems to have been filmed at least somewhat at Selhurst Park).

    I have realised that Munoz reminds me of Lasso. Painfully, tactically naive and clearly not qualified but getting decent results with the players clearly buying into the positivity.
     
    luke_golden likes this.
  13. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Is that what it's about?? I thought it was generic American comedy show starring a Hollywood actor #243. Might actually give it a watch.
     
  14. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn First Year Pro

    It's fairly generic. And a lot of the jokes are 'oh haha x in American English is y in British English hahah.' But there are a couple of funny characters.
     
    GoingDown likes this.
  15. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    I'm sorry I just cannot handle Americans and football. Even if they're doing it for comedy.
     
  16. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Rafa Benitez used to wait for the 60th min to make a sub. Remember the pundits pointing it out when he was at Liverpool. Maybe this is where Xisco gets it from.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  17. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Lazaar is a lot more attack minded than Masina so that made sense. Sometimes a change in personnel can work just as much as throwing attackers on to the field because you're losing. I remember when we were 2-0 up at Man City and could have been more, at half time Pep changed one centre back for another and it changed the game.
     
    LondonOrn likes this.
  18. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Putting on too many attackers kills any link between the defence and attack with the midfield connection between. We've had one or two games where we had so many strikers on at the end but we could only lump it forward as we had taken off anyone who could actually link the two areas together. Like for like is more nuanced that it may appear sometimes but there are definitely situations where Xisco has held his cards for too long than make the early change.
     
    LondonOrn likes this.
  19. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    How do you know that?
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  20. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    His cameo was very attack minded; trying to get forward at every opportunity and have a crack, although he was terrible at that last part. Masina is an old school fullback; defence first, attack second which if we want to hold a lead is great like we saw v Norwich but at other times like Bournemouth when you're chasing a game doesn't offer much.
     
  21. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    Oh I'm not necessarily disputing it, but we've only seen the guy play for half an hour in total. Masina probably should have scored vs Bournemouth, was involved in the build up for the penalty vs Preston and popped up in the box a couple of times vs Bristol City. I don't think it's that Masina doesn't want to get forward, he clearly does but he's not the best at it. Lazaar might be better at going forward and hopefully he turns out to be a left footed Kiko, but I haven't seen it yet!
     
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I don’t ever recall being 2-0 up against a Pep managed City, maybe I’ve just mentally blocked all our games against them out now!
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    FA Cup in 2014, was Pep there at that stage?
     
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Pellegrini it was.
     
  25. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Sam Pellegrini? City were quite refreshing back then.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  26. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I watched him!
     
  27. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    My apologies, I thought it was Pep. Point stands though
     
  28. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I honestly wasn’t being pedantic, I don’t even remember it now knowing it was actually Pellegrini. That said I’m not sure how well the point stands given it was 7 years ago, generally speaking, like for like defensive subs aren’t that common/effective when you’re losing a game.
     
  29. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I think the point stands in that differences can be made by personnel as well as changes of formation. In fact formation changes can be quite difficult to do in the middle of a game. On Saturday I would have had Ngakia on for Femenia at half time as Kiko was getting the run around by the same fella who scored the goal and Ngakia is far better defensively. Just throwing on attackers quite often doesn't work as they make them runs, do the same thing and get in each others way. Danjuma was there only real threat and we did nothing to nullify it and we paid the price
     
    GoingDown likes this.
  30. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Tough call though as Kiko was also the main source of danger with a couple of really good balls into the box and has linked up very well with Sarr over the last few weeks.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  31. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I don't really know what to make of him to be honest. He loves a last ditch tackle/block. He's also very good in the air for a full back. But boy does he have a tendency to switch off and do silly things. Bearing in mind he's spent his whole career in Italy before this, he's the least Italian-style defender I could think of!
     
  32. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Watching Serie A these days the standard of Italian defending these days has gone through the floor lol
     
  33. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Absolutely right and certainly has been one of our better performers this year but he does struggle when people with pace run at him. Gets caught out of position too easily and felt we might have been better served with a more defensive full back. It was the only way Bournemouth looked like they would score. Easy to say after the event but it was also fairly evident at the time. Wycombe will be different as I'm sure we will spend a lot of time on the front foot
     
  34. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    The sliding tackle against Bournemouth that got him a yellow was just plain stupid
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  35. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

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