World's Greatest - Messi or Ronaldo?

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by TheDon, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. TheDon

    TheDon First Team

    Had this dicussion (very heated in the end) in the common room today who is the better player
    Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo?

    Also the discussion included who is the greatest player of all time? I say Zidane, but many said Messi, saying he is already better than Pele which is far from true IMO

    Discuss.
     
  2. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    Messi has a long way to go until he is the best player of all time.

    For me, probably Maradona or Cruyff.
     
  3. Defunct

    Defunct First Team

    Of the two it's Messi, simply because he isn't a tw*t.
     
  4. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Messi. It's a team game and he's a team player.

    It is impossible to judge who is the greatest ever because football has changed so much throughout time.
     
  5. LLST

    LLST Squad Player

    Although Pele's strike rate is ridiculous.
     
  6. TheDon

    TheDon First Team

    Someone tried to tell me today that if Pelé was playing today he wouldn't be anywhere near as good as Messi.
    Imagine if he had all these physios, nutritionists telling him what to eat. With a perfectly round football on a pitch like a snooker table...
     
  7. HORNETCP

    HORNETCP Reservist

    Messi IS better than Pele. So is Ronaldo. BUT. It's down to how finessed on focus football is now. If Pele was alive now it would be impossible to judge. But based on performance Messi, Robaldo, Maradona, Pele. Difference between Messi and Ronaldo? One plays for a team, one has a team playing forhin.
     
  8. Defunct

    Defunct First Team

    Did he die suddenly?
     
  9. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    I decided to look up Pelé's goals to game ratio. It's ridiculous!
     
  10. HORNETCP

    HORNETCP Reservist

    My bad. Obviously I meant still playing.
     
  11. With A Smile

    With A Smile First Team

    of the two its Messi, alround better player not just a striker.

    Maradona and Pele both insipred fairly average teams to winning the world cup. Both Messi and Ronaldo have yet to do it on the big stage
     
  12. Prentice

    Prentice Administrator

    But then the big stage was a bigger thing back then (devils advocate).

    I don't agree with Pele's goal record, it's in a ***** league, and most of his '1000 goals' were in friendlies and ****ing military games, what a farce.

    Cruijff was the best player in the world, followed by Maradona and then perhaps Beckenbauer?

    Messi is by far the better of these two and if he carries on as he is will be up there with Cruijff, Maradona etc.
     
  13. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    I wouldn't say the Brazilian league is a ***** league. But you are right with the friendlies and military sports teams
     
  14. TheDon

    TheDon First Team

    Even if you get rid of the friendlies, he still got 643 goals in 656 games. Unbelievable.

    I still think Zidane was better than Messi though.
     
  15. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    I'd agree with that.

    Out of the two I'd say Messi is better right now, however you can't call them the greatest players in the world. They'd both be rubbish at CB, so does that make Rio Ferdinand better than both of them? I'd love to see Messi play in goal, he'd concede any shot above 5ft! So really its who is the world's greatest creative midfielder, and even then I don't know enough about non-european football to actually judge that.

    So in short Messi is the greatest creative midlfielder currently playing in the top European leagues...
     
  16. TheDon

    TheDon First Team

    Tbh, I think Iniesta is just as good if not a better creative midfielder. But everyone just looks at the goals they score
     
  17. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    Last season I thought Iniesta's passing was a lot better than Messi's, this season from what I've seen Messi has been more impressive.
     
  18. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Average teams. Maradona had players in that 1986 side who were scoring well in La Liga and France ie Valdano and Burruchaga.

    He had excellent players in midfield like Enrique and Batista and that defence was very solid. Many of the players in that Argentine side had played for River Plate and Independiente who had beaten the best club sides Europe had to offer in Liverpool and Real Madrid.

    And Pele was surrounded by superb players many of whom have been overlooked in his self serving publicity machine. Players like Djalma Santos. Cafu ? Carlos Alberto ? No he is the grandfather of them all. And he could also defend.

    Garrincha who was Pele's equal. And he is actually the most similar player that little Leo resembles in terms of his dribbling ability and left footedness. Pele comes out with a lot of rubbish too about how many goals he scored but his Santos side also swept aside Europes best of the time ie Benfica and AC Milan.

    I think players and teams can be compared across eras. All great players have that extra time on the ball, impeccable technique and footballing intelligence par excellence. All great teams pass and move the ball with speed and win it back with equally great rapidity. Not only that the players in the sides can often interchange very flexibly from River Plate to Ajax to Barcelona.

    Bielsa is the mastermind of the current Barca tactics as his Bilbao side showed against Manchester United.

    As for Leo is an very good player. Great ? In time perhaps but he still not even in the top five of all time Argentine players. That said he is in a different league to the egotistical Ronaldo. He is a better passer and technician and lacks all the unfortunate trappings of modern footballers.

    No sleazing around nightclubs, no tattoos or stupid goal celebrations, flash cars and so on. And there are signs that with a proper manager in charge of Argentina now namely Alejandro Sabella that he is transferring his club form to the international stage as in recent games against Colombia and Switzerland.
     
  19. magyarorszag

    magyarorszag Squad Player

    If pele was playing against the likes of barca or madrid i doubt he would have got as many goals as he did playing in what is probably like the scottish league
     
  20. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

    I'll get slated.... BUT...... for Georgie Best when he was "on song" would take a lot of beating.
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Messi is the best player of all time. I am privileged enough to see him live and he's even better than he appears on the TV. The awareness and runs he makes and never gets injured, even though they try to hack him continuously. He just seems to bounce and just get on with the game. He scores all types of goals, but is such a team player. Very unselfish, but to be like that and still score as many goals as he does, defies logic. The guy is a football genius.
     
  22. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    I think that Pele has nothing on Messi.

    The game is much tougher today than it was back then. It is faster, the players are faster, fitter, tougher and more skilful. Like someone else said, if Pele jumped in a time machine, I really don't think that he would have as big an impact today as he did back then.

    It's an old argument I know, but Pele never played in europe. That is where the best and most competitive football is played.
     
  23. simms

    simms vBookie

    Pele strikes me as a t**t.

    He said Messi isn't the greatest until he wins world cups.

    It's about the team to win cups not the individual player.
     
  24. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Pele can say what he wants, but he never tested himself at the highest level, so I find it ludicrous when people label him the best player ever.
     
  25. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    I cant believe nobody has mentioned Tommy Mooney.
     
  26. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    Messi isnt the greatest of all time until he wins a World Cup

    Maradona won a world cup and a league title singlehandedly

    Messi wins titles and CLs with one of the best teams in history built around him
     
  27. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    Excuse the name drop, but I was talking with Gerry Armstrong a few weeks ago and he was of the same opinion. Remembering this is a chap who has played with Best and is paid to watch Spanish football every week and so his opinion is very valid.
     
  28. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    4 world cup finals and 3 world cup winners medals.. how much more 'highest level' do you want?


    and the premise that players from the past couldnt keep up in the modern game is flawed. In 50 years time people will say the same of players we see now.. you can only judge them in the era in which they played.
     
  29. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Maradona won 2 scudetti and 2 runners up spots in a division which was notoriously tough on attackers.

    Messi as such does not have a team built around him either. All the players are part of a system they've been in for a number of years with further pupils knocking on the door.

    Leo is not as great a player as Maradona in terms of sheer flair, set piece ability and sheer will to win as yet but Barca did not teach him that much. His innate skill was there from the time he turned out for Grandoli. And like all great players he started off just kicking a ball and learning ball control.

    Not on smooth polished academy field but rough poteros. The same sort of training school players like Garrincha learnt their craft or George Best kicking a ball for hours against a wall, Bobby Charlton in the Ashington alleys or Johan Cruyff on the cobbles of old Amsterdam.

    Stevo I do think players can be compared as can teams. As I said before all great teams move the ball with ease and win it back similarly and posess players of immaculate technique. All great players have that technique and superior spatial awareness and footballing intelligence.

    Here in the British Isles we have regressed and players with pace and power are still preferred. Nothing moves faster than the ball on the pitch or a quicksilver footballing brain. The loss of street football has still not been replaced and players from earlier eras in England, Scotland and the like posess better technique.
     
  30. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Best player ever - John Barnes.
    Best player still playing - Tommy Mooney (veterans small sided football etc.)

    End of discussion.
     
  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Much as I hate Maradonna, what he turned Napoli into was a miracle.
     
  32. PaddingtonsYellowArmy

    PaddingtonsYellowArmy First Team Captain

    Billy Jennings - end of!
     
  33. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    People mostly young children seem to think Messi is the superior player. But they have not seen or heard of di Stefano whom Bobby Charlton rated as the complete footballer.

    And Maradona not only performed well at Barcelona until shipped out by El Tel for Archibald and won titles with unfancied Argentinos Juniors aged just seventeen.

    Here are just two videos highlighting his ability. One his amazing passing ability and as a youngster against England at Wembley:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]--ACUzCCza8[/yt]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]eh8w3g0-QGo[/yt]
     
  34. fuzzy73

    fuzzy73 Squad Player

    So it's not Nicklas Bendtner then?

    Someone ought to tell him
     
  35. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    A legend in his own mind.
     

Share This Page