Who Stays, Who Goes?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by YellowKicks, Jul 17, 2020.

  1. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I think most have forgotten his existence.

    Shame because he's a very decent player when fit. Certainly miles ahead of shambolic Femenia.
     
  2. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    TBF there is nothing wrong with either of them if the forward line is firing.
    Which it isn't .
     
  3. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Nothing wrong with Janmaat. Bucket loads wrong with Femenia. An absolute embarrassment of a "defender".
     
  4. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    There's one thing wrong with Janmaat.
    He's never fit.
     
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  5. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Touché.
     
  6. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    I think you may be a tad harsh on Femenia.
    Today's full back is the attacking width or the new box
    to box midfielder. If Kiko could defend as well as he attacked
    then possibly he would be at a much more successful club than
    us . For example Trent A-A defensive mistakes are generally overlooked
    as his and his team's attacking play outweigh the defensive mistakes.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  7. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Sorry, no.

    He's absolutely horrendous. His "defending" is literally disgraceful. It's not just for stand-out, one off mistakes, it's his complete and utter lack of any positional sense, his inability to tackle and his deplorable lack of bravery. And what is this laughable fallacy I've seen thrown around recently about him being "decent" going forward? What is this based on exactly? He offers nothing going forward. His crossing and decision making is appalling and he doesn't pop up with goals like Janmaat.

    Our fans truly are on a different planet. The desperation to find an excuse for every player no matter how excrutiatingly bad they are is genuinely just weird.
     
    Carpster likes this.
  8. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    You are entitled to your opinion but I have to disagree with you .

    If we had a striker who scored 15 goals this season then we would
    not be discussing full backs?

    However your points about his technical ability etc are valid
     
  9. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    Of course we would.
     
  10. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Why wouldn't we? In what way would having a striker scoring 15 goals change Femenia's complete lack of ability to defend or offer anything to the team?

    It might mean we were in a better position in the league, but it wouldn't change the fact that Femenia is still an absolute dog turd of a defender and footballer.
     
  11. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Because as I have already said Trent A-A defensive foibles are generally overlooked because
    Liverpool front 3 bail the rest of the team out .
    Troy and Andre will not bail the team out with goals
    If you are a defender and you have no confidence in your strikers to score goals
    then that places you under immense pressure not to concede as you think "who will score if
    we concede?"
     
  12. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Exactly. I think Janmaat's a good player but he's injury prone, like you say he has issues with fitness and now he's 30 those issues are unlikely to get any better. We dont have the squad to carry players like that unfortunately and this season has shown that right back is a position we need to invest in.
     
  13. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Are we really comparing Alexander-Arnold to Femenia? Hilarious, but go on then. Alexander-Arnold is an average but young and likely to improve defender, with world class ability on the ball. Femenia is a thoroughly woeful, ageing and extremely unlikely to ever improve defender, with very little ability on the ball.

    Basically, what you're saying is that the long and short of it is that it's not Femenia's fault he's an appalling defender and we should give him a free pass for it because we don't score enough goals. Bizarre.
     
  14. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Goalkeepers:

    Foster - Stays

    Two year deal signed, doubt he will want to move again this late into his career.

    Gomes - Leaves

    Contract expires, will retire.

    Bachmann - Stays

    2nd Choice behind Foster.

    Will need 1x GK for backup, would predict academy.

    Center Backs:

    Cathcart - Stays

    Few years on contract, 3rd choice.

    Dawson - Stays

    Likely would be our starting CB in Championship.

    Kabasele - Leaves

    Think a promoted side may take a punt on him.

    Mariappa - Stays

    One year extension, will be last choice in pecking order.

    Spencer-Adams - Stays

    One year extension offered.

    Will need a starter CB. Would take Pontus Jansson if he is available.

    Fullbacks:

    Femenia - Leaves

    Think he would have takers overseas than stay in Championship. Contract expires next year.

    Janmaat - Leaves

    Will not want to play in Championship.

    Masina - Stays

    Long contract, not done enough to earn move away. Could have options in Italy though.

    Holebas - Leaves

    Contract expires.

    Will need 2x RB's of starter quality. 1x LB of starter quality.

    Central Midfielders:

    Doucoure - Leaves

    Hasn't shown up enough this year, but a move I think would rejuvinate him elsewhere. Should have been sold last year with hindsight.

    Capoue - Leaves

    Has been one of our overall *better* midfieliders, sure he has admirers around the globe.

    Hughes - Leaves

    Mid table side will want to snap him up, really stepped up where few other have.

    Chalobah - Stays

    Will be one of our starting XI for sure and not done enough to get move elsewhere. Think on a personal level that will do him good.

    Cleverley - Stays

    Has been injured for too long of a period and not done great this year for a Premier league side to take a chance with him.

    Quina - Stays

    Will probably be first on bench and impact sub.

    Dele-Bashiru - Stays

    Likely loaned out I think. Not ready for Championship based on Tranmere game but quality is there so could be kept for push back.

    Will need 3x CM's. Two starter quality, one rotation.

    > Wingers:

    Sarr - Leave

    Will likely got for slightly less than we paid. If we're able, maybe loan him to a Premier League side so if we are able to bounce straight back up we can retain him.

    Deulofeu - Stays

    With his injury, I would be surprised to see a club take a punt on him right now. Will likely see how we are come January and whether we are likely to get promoted.

    Pereyra - Leaves

    Heart not with it this year, should have been sold last year for both parties sake.

    Penaranda - Stays

    Could be make or break for him. Certainly has something about him but that doesn't look promising now. Still on long contract.

    Pussetto - Stays

    Will likely make a starting spot his own next year. Fairly versatile, able to play RM, CAM and ST.

    Strikers

    Welbeck - Stays

    Clubs will be put off by his injury history otherwise would be in Leave category.

    Gray - Stays

    Proven Championship striker, still has a few years on deal.

    Deeney - Stays

    Has been quite frankly awful this year, playing through injury only making it worse. Would prefer sub role but wouldn't past club using him as starter.

    Pedro - Stays

    Given he hasn't featured much this year and length of deal, suspect we will use that to hold him and give him plenty of minutes next Season.

    Success - Stays

    Injury will put off and suitors. Will probably leave in January unless he somehow proves he is a capable Deeney replacement though unlikely as I do not think he's happy here.

    Loanees:

    Dahlberg - Loaned

    Needs game time to show what he is capable of. Highly rated by club.

    Wilmot - Stays

    I would wager he will be a starter and gets partnered with Dawson next year. Looks the business when he plays.

    Estupiñán - Leaves

    Has a lot of potential suitors, and will have leverage to make it happen. I don't begrudge him it.

    Foulquier - Leaves

    Likely sold or loaned again to Granada.

    Navarro - Leaves

    Likely sold or loaned.

    Sema - Stays

    Unless Udinese make a good offer for him I suspect he will feautre heavily next Season.

    Sinclair - Loaned

    Will look for game time elsewhere. Contract expires next year.

    Stuparevic - Leaves

    Udinese were very interested in him a few months ago.

    Hernandez - Stays

    Club are determined to intergrate him to team, he seems happy to join us properly.

    Suarez - Leaves

    Similar to Estupiñán.

    Predicted Lineup next year:

    ---------------Foster---------------

    New RB - Wilmot - Dawson - Masina

    ---------Chalobah--New CM---------

    --Pussetto---Cleverley---Hernandez--

    ---------------Welbeck---------------

    Subs: Bachmann, New CB, New RB, New LB, Quina, Sema, Deeney

    Full predicted squad:

    Foster, Bachmann, New GK

    New RB, New RB, Dawson, Wilmot, Cathcart, New CB, Mariappa, Masina, New LB

    Chalobah, Cleverley, Quina, Dele-Bashiru, New CM, New CM

    Deulofeu (Injured), Pussetto, Sema, Hernandez, Penaranda, New Winger

    Deeney, Welbeck, Gray, Pedro, Success
     
  15. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    Two things.

    His legs.
     
  16. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Of course I am not comparing ability. I am comparing the position they play in .
    Full backs are the new box to box midfielders.
    19 teams x 4 full backs 76 full backs of various ability .
     
  17. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    The issue in regards to our defense isnt that our strikers dont score goals, its that our forward line doesn't retain possession so that the defense is always under pressure. Theres no out ball, and its become more obvious since the restart with how direct we've become
     
    Davy Crockett likes this.
  18. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    This is a great post .
    As well as scoring goals a front 2\3 have to "show" for the ball to relieve pressure.
     
  19. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Nothing changes the fact that Femenia has consistently proven himself to be a terrible, weak defender for almost his entire time here, including last season when we performed better than we are now. Why that is so hard to accept I truly cannot fathom.

    Watford fans are aware that sometimes footballers just aren't very good or good enough, right? There isn't always a "but, er, but..." excuse for everyone, as much as people clearly so desperately want there to be.
     
  20. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    What about our striker (who's name escapes me right now) who is knocking them in for Udinese right now, shouldn't we bring him back? OKAKA that's the one :D
     
  21. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    You are absolutely correct to point out Femenia limitations and that he is not in the same class
    as Trent A-A . However if we swapped Trent for Kiko then our problems would remain the same .
    If we swapped Troy Andre Success for Inngs then we would instantly be improved.
     
  22. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I fear for Kiko,not as a super rich athlete but because he appears to be changing into Frankenstein's monster.
     
  23. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    All of our problems would remain the same, except for the fact that we wouldn't be stuck with an abysmal, worst in the league, not fit for purpose right back any longer and our back line would be immediately improved both defensively and in terms of quality on the ball.

    Your logic on this is completely nonsensical.
     
  24. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I'd take Frankenstein's monster over Femenia at right back every day of the week.
     
  25. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    I understand in a way. But Trent has over 10 assists this season and a few goals. But yes a quality forward is essential. I'm sure the majority of clubs in the Premier would want ings.
     
  26. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Really !
    And a 20 goal a season striker would not improve our position?. Wow !
     
  27. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    That is a very good point but would he get the same opportunities for his assists
    if he played for us ? Whereas Inngs has banged in 20 for a bang average Saints
    In fact where would they be without him?
     
  28. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Erm, where exactly did I say or even imply that whatsoever?

    You said if we replaced Femenia and Alexander-Arnold our problems would remain the same, I then explained how that's not at all true and how it would make a difference.

    I would have thought it was pretty obvious that replacing any player in the team with a much higher quality and more capable player would have a positive impact.
     
  29. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    So you question whether Alexander-Arnold, arguably the best ball playing right back in world football, would get his assists etc. for us, but in the same breath insist Ings would still bang in goals in our awful side. You couldn't make this up. Both would obviously have some sort of measurable, positive impact.
     
  30. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    My point was that it doesn't matter how good the service is if the strikers are shanking the ball.
    Yes Trent A-A is quality we are both agreed but if the recipient is Andre as opposed to Salah .......
     
  31. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    Inngs would score in our team . No doubt . Who would doubt this?.
    You think an average full back would stop him scoring ?.
    I don't .
     
  32. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    But the fact in all of this is that you're excusing Femenia, his awful defending, his zero input in an attacking sense and his consistently terrible performances, because our strikers don't score enough goals.

    The reality is that both are true and both have a negative impact on our performances - our right back is utter dog **** and so are our strikers. It's not one or the other and one doesn't make the other less relevant.
     
  33. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Thoroughly depressing prediction. Probably not too far off
     
  34. The Recluse

    The Recluse First Year Pro

    Except Janmaat will stay. He has said as much, that he'll see out his contract here.
     
  35. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Academy Graduate

    I am not excusing him

    If for example Liverpool swapped Trent and Robertson for Kiko and Masina would it affect them ?
    Of course it would .
    But would it affect them as much if they swapped Mane Salah Fermino for Deeney Gray Success?
    Or Manure swapping their full backs or swapping Rashford Greenwood Martial ?.
     

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