Who Can We Realistically Get Rid Of This Summer?

I do think it is a bit harsh to compare three experienced championship midfielders playing in their natural position against a winger playing his first half season in the division playing out of position. Think in that second half against Reading he showed he is capable of putting in a shift defensively.

Bar the Luton game, where admittedly had had an absolute shocker; I think Zinc has shown enough promise to be kept around for next season.

 

Zinc is gash.

 

And he was hardly alone in that game. And seemed to have been strangely rotated into a deeper role with Hughes ahead of him, despite Hughes having excelled in the deeper role and PZ being a naturally more attacking player. The CM in that game was all wrong.

 

So he’s not exclusively a 10 then, is he

 

I guess he was just trying to drop deep to make things happen as he wasn't getting the ball where he wanted it, but you are right that midfield was just a trio that did not work at all.

 

Did Zinc not play wide at his previous club. His best assists, if there is such a thing, came from wide positions at Rotherham but he never seems to get to play wide. Strange when Sarr didn't play the last two games he didn't take his place. I'm hopeful that he might be better suited to the Premier League. I thought the same when had Layun but we never really got to find out

 

he did take that position until clevs picked up an injury and then he had to move back to midfield.

 

I don't buy this whole "not his natural position" malarkey when it comes to Zinc - I don't think he has the pace to be a right-winger in this league and from his heatmaps he's near enough to playing as a left-winger anyway. He's being used in exactly the position which should be the most beneficial for him to get the assists and goals we signed him for (advanced midfielder/inside-left winger), except in addition boo-hoo we're also asking poor Philip to make a few tackles as well.

 

Thank god you’re not a scout then

 

Yea his best asset is finding pockets of space on the right side and putting crosses in, as we saw briefly vs Barnsley. Being deployed the opposite side completely strips that away from him

 

The most advanced midfielder in a midfield three is basically a 10.

De Bruyne - most advanced midfielder in a 3; a "10".
Fernandes - most advanced midfielder in a 3; a "10".
Maddison - most advanced midfielder in a 3; a "10".
Sigurdsson - most advanced midfielder in a 3; a "10".

In general those players don't just swan casually around the pitch taking a breather and touching up their hair while the opposition also has the ball; De Bruyne and Fernandes properly press the opposition constantly and get stuck in.

Boo-hoo that poor Zinckernagel also gets asked to make some tackles once in a while.

 

Position on a team sheet and role on the pitch are two entirely different things. Also pressing and getting stuck in is something KDB and Fernandes don’t do. KDB both in the 60 percentile when it comes to those metrics. Fernandes slightly better at pressing but just under the 60 percentile for tackles won

 

I don't disagree he should be doing more, but I don't quite understand the level of hate boner you seem to have for him. There is very clearly a talented player in there - the numbers he put up in Denmark more than back that up - whether he is good enough at this level neither you or I can really say but give at least him a proper pre season and then judge him.

 

Firstly, you usually have to be able to beat a man to get a cross in from the wing, something which Zinc hasn't really shown he has the pace to do here.

Here's a recent highlights compilation of him from Bodo/Glimt:



0:19 - goal centre of box
0:30 - goal centre of box !
0:45 - assist cross right-wing
1:10 - assist cross right-wing
1:20 - goal direct from free-kick
1:28 - goal centre of box
1:47 - dribble and assist centre of pitch !
1:55 - goal right-hand side of box
2:10 - goal centre of pitch !
2:20 - assist cross right-wing
2:30 - goal left-hand side of box !
2: 40 - assist centre of box
2:50 - goal right-hand edge of box
3:10 - goal header left-hand back post !
3:30 - assist cross right-wing
3:40 - assist cross right-wing
3:55 - goal right-wing
4:05 - goal centre of box
4:20 - goal centre of pitch !

So that's out of 19 direct goal involvements shown there, only 6 (32%) were from crosses from the right-wing (5 assists, 1 goal). Everything else, all the other 2 assists and 11 goals (78%) were from positions he has plenty of opportunity to get in to from the position he plays in with us.

I really don't know how it can be claimed that his crosses are "his best asset" when he scored 19 goals last season, pretty much as many as the 24 he assisted for Bodo/Glimt - and not all of his assists would have been from the right-wing, while basically all of his goals were from positions he can and does get in to now.

It's nothing to do with him not playing right-wing that explains why he's only got 1 goal for us and couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo, despite getting in to loads of similar positions for us already as he did for most the goals he scored for Bodo/Glimt shown in the video above.

When he joined he was supposed to have decent set-piece delivery as well, including decent crosses from corner, but that's also been poor for us. Again, that has nothing to do with him not playing on the right-flank.

Also, given that basically all of his attributes that we've seen him excel at while at Bodo/Glimt such as in the video above look less effective for us in the Championship - like his dribbling, finishing, and shooting and crossing from set-pieces - what's to say that his crossing from the right-wing wouldn't also look equally inferior now?!

This is far from a considering shunting Yakou Meite on to the left kind of situation and it's not an excuse for his general underwhelming play.

I agree that a full pre-season with us might help, but that's the only thing it seems worth giving him some benefit of the doubt about; the position he's being used in by us isn't.

 

This one is going to run and run, ladies and gentlemen.

 

Unlike some of our players

 

D1ck swinging in full force.

Sponsored by WhoScored and heatmaps.co.uk

 

There's no "hate" - I just think he's looked underwhelming for us so far in the Championship so am not convinced he'll do much for us in the Premiership; and I don't think the excuse given by some as to why he's been underwhelming, his position, is a valid enough explanation for so many areas of deficiency.

I've already acknowledged plenty of times as well, not just today, that a full pre-season with us could help, but still, based on current showings it will need to have a significant impact.

 

I have to agree Carps, I wouldn't spend £30.00 on Andre Gray for instance

 

In fairness both assists at Rotherham were from the left

 

Please stop using YouTube highlights as a way to determine an opinion on a player, it’s a smidgen of what positions they take up, how they receive the ball, what they do with the ball - you can see the way he moves, but not what he’s actually capable of. The player himself also said he’s best off the right crossing, and carrying the ball

 

Whoops

 

To be fair - his effectiveness from the right is unlikely to be of massive importance to us because Sarr is likely to play every minute he is fit in that role.

Zinckernagel needs to find a way to make himself useful to the team either from the left or more centrally or I worry it could be a bit of a Van de Beek situation where regardless of how talented he is; he is unlikely to get a decent run in the side in his preferred position because the guy who plays there is the best player in the team.

Given that he is right footed and he clearly has an eye for goal, I am not entirely sure why he can't play on the left and surely that would be better behind Joao Pedro than running 2x wingers crossing into a striker who isn't THAT efffective in the box.

 

I’m with you, fact he wasn’t used on either flank league wise is pretty odd, suppose Xisco liked his energy and defensive work in the middle, as we play with two advanced eights. If he had a pre season with us, I could’ve seen him being the starter on the left side given Sarr is undroppable and I don’t particularly think Sema is that good

 

I think he played there once or twice when he first joined but his defending was a bit ropey and Xisco just appeared to sack it off entirely. Odd it wasn't revisited after Ken went off the boil and he got more up to speed with the league though.

I think Sema is good at what he does but he is a pretty limited player and is I worry PL defenders will suss him out pretty quickly.

I would be inclined to agree but if we go into the season with only Zinc and Sema as our left winger I will be pretty concerned. Especially if JP is going to be our starting striker.

 

He's not that quick, so perhaps the right flank isn't for him (fair enough if we've got Sarr and Meite is coming), I quite like him in a central role, but I'd definitely like to see more of him on the left, I know positions are only really on paper, but I can see Zinckernagel thriving from the left cutting in, he picked up an assist at Rotherham from there

 

I'd be astonished if JP is our only 'proper' striker going into next season, we've been linked with plenty of strikers already this window, would take a monumental failure not even to sign one

 

Didn't he pick up a knock in that game?

 

The signs all suggest we will sign a striker. The issue is whether we will sign a decent striker - something that the Pozzos have spectacularly failed to do in 7 odd years since we signed Ighalo (and that was more by luck than design given his goal scoring record in the 6 years since the Pozzos had signed him for Udinese)

Not like they have done a great deal better at Udinese either - their stinginess just seems to prevent them from paying the requisite amount that is actually required for a striker of the right calibre.

 

Don’t bet on it.

 

The first chart makes no sense, it shows only 3 of his goals and 5 of his assists.

The second one yeah it seems half of his assists come from out wide, but considering he started out there it's to be expected, but again the other half come from central areas demonstrating he's in theory plenty capable of doing that as well when he gets in to central positions. You say not to use youuube clips, but they clearly show plenty of occasions when he was perfectly comfortable creating and scoring chances from the central area of the pitch; he's my no means a fish out of water there.

You've not showed where all his goals have come from either, his position has no real impact on his inability to score for us.

He's actually had opportunities to be used on the right wing for us including in the last two games with Sarr out, but the club have decided against it. They've scouted him and see him in training, and for whatever reason they think it doesn't make sense for him to play out there (really I think it's because of his lack of pace to play on the wing).

One final thing that works against him, though this isn't really his fault, as Sarr has already found out to his frutstration, there is little use in having someone on the flank who wants to whip crosses in when we don't have a forward capable of getting on the end of them.

 

I agree with the general sentiment that Zinc lacks the pace for the right wing, but should still in theory be able to function well getting goals from the left. His heat map shows he was drifting to the left a lot already anyway so it's given some major clues as to what he's like there:

Unfortunately, he has already been having on average 2.2 shots per 90, which is joint most with the highest of our regular first team starters in Sarr and Joao Pedro. Gosling is basically the same on 2.3 shots.

Yet Gosling has 2 goals in half the minutes as Zinc for us, with him only getting 1.

Deeney and Hughes are basically the only of our midfielders and forwards with a lower outfield goals per 90 than Zinc, despite the fact he's been taking near enough the most shots of anyone.

I shouldn't really need the stats to back-up what has been evident to many from their very eyes, but the simple fact is that Zinc's shooting has been crap for us, despite the fact that he's gotten in to loads of shooting positions. Again, it's not the fault of his position that he can't finish his dinner for us.

 

Another question for everyone - is Zinc's outfield position also somehow the reason why he seems to rarely be able to beat the first man when taking set-pieces?!

 

Is he significantly slower than Sema?

This is certainly a relevant point. Zinkernagel came in during January and our starting centre forward hasn't scored a goal since February. Creative players are only as good as the forwards in front of them and Joao has been in pretty poor form since Zinc came in.

Obviously doesn't excuse some of his individually poor shooting etc.