Where will we finish?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Sting, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    11th as I've said all along (well mainly !) which is a great achievement.
    WHU will beat Soton and then need to win at our place with our minds on the cup to overtake us. We won't win at Chelsea !
     
  2. Why is 11th a great achievement?
     
  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Because we flirted with relegation last year and barely strengthened in the summer and have one of the lowest cost structures. Had we been 11th all season all rational supporters would have been happy, it's only the fact that we were in prime position for 7th for the last month that will leave a bad taste with some.
     
  4. Just don't see what's so great about a midtable squad coming mid table.

    Unless you think our squad is relegation fodder, in which case I can see why you think it's great.
     
  5. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes I don't think our squad should expect to finish above the 4/5 teams around on us, based on they have signed players that we were drooling over in the summer, Anderson, Dondecker, Fabianski, Jonny Evans etc in addition to the Vardy's they already had. At the start of the season I thought about 14th/15th would be a decent outcome ,so 11th and a cup final is overachieving in my eyes.
     
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I think there's an argument, in the context of where we've come from, our long/medium term standing in the game and the like, to argue 11th would be a great achievement. Only twice would we have finished higher in the pyramid in over a 100 years. But will I be getting out the bunting and celebrating like a mentalist? Obviously not.
     
  7. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    11th would not be a great achievement in the slightest. We've spent basically the entire season in the top 8/9. To finish 11th now would be nothing but a disappointing end to what was an excellent season.
     
  8. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    From where we were last summer it is an excellent achievement and a great improvement. From where we were a month ago, it isn't. As you say "a disappointing ending to what was an excellent season".
     
  9. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Maybe so Nath, but I get the feeling you wouldn't be happy until we were winning the league and signing players of Messi and Ronaldo ilk.
     
  10. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I just think calling finishing 11th a "great achievement" is a little ridiculous.

    It doesn't mean we haven't had a memorable season that we can be proud of, but 11th is not a "great achievement" in the scheme of this season and would be a deflating end.
     
  11. Leighton Buzzer

    Leighton Buzzer First Year Pro

    We've got Deulofeu. He's magic you know.
     
  12. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Beat Chelsea we are on 53 points going into a final home game, with a good chance to finish on 56 points. Last season we finished with 41 points, 11 wins and -20 goal difference. That now best outcome of 56 would be an increase on lat year of 36% Pretty good IMHO. Finish the season with two defeats those 50 points drop the improvement down to a 22%. Last season Burnley finished 7th on 54 points and Everton 8th on 49 points. Leicester 9th on 47, Newcastle 10th on 44, palarse 11th also on 44 with -10 goal difference. The year before Everton were 7th with 61 points and 8th was Southampton on 46 points. Fifty points is a pretty decent uplift, 54 or better would be very good improvement on last year. Whatever happens in May, we will still want to have secured 8 wins by the start of FA Cup 3rd round in Jan 2020, to be on course to secure another Premier League season.
     
  13. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    50 points is sensational for the 16th highest wage bill.
     
  14. The way Fulham have been playing they might do us a favour and beat Wolves, and their last game is away to Liverpool which definitely will not be easy, so all we have to do is win at Chelsea and at home to The Spammers to finish above them and have the last laugh, easy peasy me thinks ;)

    As for Leicester they have to go to Man City and play Chelsea at home, so there is every chance we could overhaul them as well, and The Snakes 11 have a home game with Burnley a game where they could easily drop points, and their last game is away at Spurs as well, so hopefully they should lose that one.

    It's a real shame we've made a pigs ear of our last few fixtures, but if, and I know it's a big IF, we managed to make up for it by WINNING our last two games I think we could still finish 7th :cool:

    However, even if that scenario does not pan out, we could still have the last laugh over the Wolves and all the other contenders by winning the cup and denying whoever finishes 7th a place in Europe.

    So lets be positive it aint over yet..................................................

    U 'OOOOOOORRRRRRRRNNNNSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    How would you have described 11th place had you been told in the summer that is where we would finish after last seasons woes and the apathy over the summers transfers ?
    It just feels bad now because of where we were a month ago. If "a great achievement" can only be winning a cup or qualifying for Europe, we have only ever had one such achievement in our history and, after blowing our chances this season, I doubt we will ever see another one.
     
  16. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I don't see pre-season expectations as relevant at this point whatsoever. We are were we are, players have stepped up and improved in both their ability, consistency and attitude and looked like a team of players to be exactly where we are.

    I'm never going to agree that 11th is a "great achievement". The season we've had is what I gauge that opinion on, not what are now irrelevant expectations before a ball was kicked.
     
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    I am utterly convinced that Wolves will f*** things up for themselves and we'll beat Chelsea and West Ham to nick 7th place. Leicester will get 1 more point and Everton can expect 3 more.
     
  18. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Ok. Lets agree to disagree.
    I think it's a great achievement as we will finish way above where we expected at the start of the season.
    You think that original expectation is now irrelevant and are comparing the fact that we've had a good season with the fact that we've had a good season " The season we've had is what I gauge that opinion on "
     
  19. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Hope you're right but fear you won't be. You'd get good odds.
     
  20. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    To spend almost the entire season inside the top 10 on merit, performances and players finally living up to their ability/potential and even have 7th in our own hands with just three games to go, only to then finish 11th at the death doesn't warrant a "great achievement" to me, no.

    A "great achievement" is reaching the FA Cup final as we have done, a "great achievement" would have been finishing 7th, a "great achievement" is not suddenly finishing 11th after spending the vast majority of the season comfortably inside the top 10.

    A decent league season still? Yes. A "great achievement" when looking at the reality of our season as opposed to pre-season guess work? No. That terminology to me is huge exaggeration.
     
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    OK, paraphrasing, so finishing 10+ points higher than last season isn't a great achievement because we should have done better than that based on where we were a couple of months ago ?
     
  22. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    No. It's a decent league season and a good improvement, but calling finishing 11th a "great achievement" is to me, as I've mentioned, a huge exaggeration and a little ridiculous.

    We do have an example of a "great achievement" in our season in having reached an FA Cup final, certainly not in finishing 11th, if that is the case in the end.
     
  23. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Academy Graduate

    When you're mid-table, league position really doesn't matter. We were only a few points off top half last two seasons despite being ******* awful for much of them, yet even if we do finish 11th this season, it's still been far better than either of those two. You have to take into account that some of the mid-table teams that have been abysmal in recent times are starting to get it together now, add Wolves to the mix, even if we finish lower than we could have ended up had disaster not struck against Arsenal, we've still done well in the league this year
     
  24. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Reversion to the norm.

    Norm from Cheers?
     
  25. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    I know Bournemouth aren’t even in this conversation , but watching them v spurs. They are such a horrible little team!
     
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  26. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    How much is each position worth?

    About 2 million ..?
     
  27. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    West Ham beating Southampton.

    Finishing 11th and achieving greatness looking a real possibility.
     
  28. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yep.
     
  29. All hail the greatness of 11th and a bottom half finish
     
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  30. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Although obviously and naturally it’s our final league position that will get remembered from the season, I also think other things should be taken into account in the discussion. This has been our 6th PL season and this campaign has seen us get our most points, most wins and most goals. So whether or not we finish 8th or 9th or even 10th or 11th, it’s still been a big step forward.

    Secondly, I’m sticking to my belief that our chances of finishing 7th were doomed as soon as we won at Wembley. A club with a massive squad like Man City may be able to keep going and winning on several fronts, but for one like ours it is very very difficult. Subconsciously at least concentration levels will drop, even commitment to risky tackles etc. What’s happened over the last few weeks has been totally normal and expected. Even the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea have suffered a wobble in the league of late as they have to divide their attention between there and big cup ties. Our minds are elsewhere, however much we might like to hope they’re not.

    We’ve won 20 matches this season, and if win 21 comes on May 18 it will be the best season ever. If we lose the final, it will still go down as a very good season but one with a few ‘if onlys’ at the end.
     
  31. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes. Scandalous that we can't finish in the top half of the prem. To finish above all English teams bar the top 6 and minnows Everton, Leicester, WHU & Wolves is just plain embarrassing. Gracia out !
     
  32. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Be-gone with all your logic. It's not welcome here !
    Because we had a great chance for 7th some now see 11th as a disappointing season rather than just a weak end to a very good season.
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    If we finish 11th and lose the final, it will still be a decent enough season, but it would still fit the format of starting the season on fire only to end it in free fall, in terms of results.

    It would be a sad way to end this particular season, and for me, it would change a potential "special" season and reduce to is just a decent one.
     
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  34. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    But unlike previous seasons results haven’t tailed off because the players were on the beach or the club’s announced that the Head Coach is leaving and therefore motivation has dropped etc. This season results have tailed off because of the distraction on the horizon of the biggest match in most of our players’ careers. I simply don’t feel this season’s end of term results can be compared with any of the previous three PL campaigns.
     
  35. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Position means nothing without context.

    12th and within 2 points of 7th is far better than 10th and 20 points adrift, for example.

    We're pretty damn close to 7th and the only reason we're not closer is a trifecta of ridiculous mistakes/badluck in successive games from Foster x2, Deeney and Cathcart. We got horrifically unlucky at a very bad time. I still think we'd be 5 points better off were it not for the aforementioned events.

    Some outlier individual errors that cost games don't reflect on the team's performances over the season. We've done very well in the league AND we've got to the FA Cup Final. I'm disappointed that we got derailed by a string of bizarre things which absolutely impacted results, but it's unfair to look at our league position without taking into account what might have been were it not for those errors. It's almost unbelievable what happened to us in such a short period, freakishly so.
     

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