Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Hogg-DEENEY!!!, Mar 19, 2020.
@lowerrous appears not to understand the difference between “can” and “will”.
No it's not.
Just because one 50 year-old Italian male dies from coronavirus, it does not mean that another completely unrelated 50 year-old Italian male can die from a coronavirus. The next 50 year-old Italian male might be 100% immune to it. Many people clearly are basically immune to it.
Every individual has different genetic makeup (except for twins), different life backgrounds, and different levels of health.
Yes I do.
That's why I made the point:
"Are you going to travel around somehow destroying every single person on Earth's immune systems to the point where it would be literally impossible for them to survive the coronavirus if they caught it? Because that's pretty much the only way in which your statement could possibly be true."
If a person is healthy enough or has certain genes/immune system whatever which renders them completely asymptomatic even were they ever to become infected with coronavirus (and there are many people out there for which this is the case) then they can not die from coronavirus.
But it is. My point was that people of any age can die from this virus. That is literally proven and unarguable. Any other points you are making about this 50yr old and that 50yr old aren’t ones that are relevant to the basic point made.
Is there evidence that people of any age and health condition can die of this? Yes. I didn’t make the point any more nuanced than that and you’ve still failed to recognise it.
You know that to be true, do you? It’s not just fortune? Or a consequence of how virulent the virus which is transmitted might be?
if you do know it to be true, why are not providing advice to the NHS and WHO? Or, less facetiously, why are we not focusing on genetic makeup rather than a vaccine?
Firstly, I don’t need you to tell me the question I should have asked you. I’m comfortable with the one I asked thanks.
Secondly - let me ask you this? Both Conor Coady today and Jordan Henderson last week said that ALL captains were in dialogue with one another and were largely on the same page and having positive dialogue. Therefore Deeney will have been involved in this... It’s also been said that Deeney has been in discussions involving the club and PL - so I suspect he has far more info about what is (or isn’t) going on than you or I. So why do you allude that you know more than he does when he’s made his comments?
The fact that you’ve long had a long running issue with the player appears to cloud your judgment on his comments in my opinion.
Gonna leave this discussion now anyway. It’s not the first time we’ve had it and we won’t convince one another. All I can say is that I do see elements in your viewpoint that I agree with, even if I don’t come to the same conclusions.
That's not the same thing as "anyone" - anyone means literally "anyone", not "a person of any age".
Maybe that was what you wanted to say, but it's not what you said.
I've already pointed out the nuances of the issue in more depth than you, and those nuances are that even though people of every age have died of this virus, the chances of someone under 45 dying from the virus are ridiculously low.
People are already investigating what genes might be a factor in making people susceptible to being infected by coronavirus or not.
Low isn’t zero. Name me someone who it’s proven simply cannot die from the virus. Just one.
Probably sulking. I agree it's not a good early sign from our supposed captain fantastic if we have to finish the season.
Maybe he was worried about the thought BAME people are more at risk?
Henderson will say finish the season ofcouse - he'll probably be rested for most of it!
Cody will be thinking Wolves have a great chance of European football again.
TBF Deeney doesn't say the season should end ..
Just be held back till they are totally its safe.
The burden of proof is on you to prove anyone can. You made the original claim.
Regardless, if I had to put a case forward (which I don't for the aforementioned reason), I'm sure one could be found amongst the hundreds of thousands of people who have already been infected with and recovered from the virus.
So you can’t. Glad we have got that sorted.
Until there is irrefutable evidence that some genetic makeup protects against the disease, how do you know that those who recover aren’t doing so simply because of prompt and effective healthcare?
Perhaps Boris is the perfect genetic specimen?
The burden of proof is on you to prove anyone can.
Hundreds of thousands have already been exposed to it and didn't.
Also, here's one of many reports pointing out the point which surely by this stage need not be made to you, but sadly still does, that many people who catch coronavirus are asymptomatic:
You can not die from it if it doesn't cause any symptoms.
Contrary to your claim, you sure are acting as if there is basically no level of risk you'd be willing to accept.
No I’m not. I’m merely discussing the merits of many players and clubs being wary of it being safe enough to play. It’s not me claiming that it’s not safe enough - it appears to be you claiming that it is.
“Anyone” is not synonymous with “everyone”.
Is there something that says that someone is permanently asymptomatic? Or that once no longer infected that they are confirmed to be immune?
If not, then the above points are once again irrelevant to defending any point you’re making.
You keep saying the burden of proof is on me. How? Until there is a person alive who is proven to be immune, then the global community has to go with the belief that it can kill anyone.
So I ask again - who is proven to be immune to the virus?
Tammy Abraham the latest to come out and say he's worried about giving it to a high risk relative that he lives with.
Fat coward who's scared of hard work and relegation. Bet he's been driving around.
Selfish idiot can just move into a hotel room for a few months though? Or kick his relative out?
Hang on - he might be immune?! Either way, he needs to get his priorities right.
Can’t he just hold his breath when he’s at home?
No it's not that lot mate
It is Borussia Dortmund for me
I was in Dresden when I bought the local team's shirt - but I see neither of my teams are in the top division now.
Dortmund it is for me too, then.
That is pretty much what people were saying on Twitter.
It's his Dad who has asthma apparently.
Some couldn't believe a young professional football was stll living with his dad.
Nigel Pearson has had his say now.
You can't void a season because of an individual's specific circumstances. So Grant Hanley's wife is pregnant and Troy Deeney's Dad has asthma. Then Mr Hanley and Mr Deeney need to make their mind up whether to play and take the risk, play and move away from their relative, or take furlough. Just like everyone else in the UK, pretty much, but without the money worries. But they don't close a hospital or a garden centre or a supermarket because one of the staff is pregnant or has asthma. Closing down football for specific cases is way over the top.
If it helps, players might be interested to know that the number of people under 45 who have died of coronavirus in this country is 384, up to 1st May. That's according to death certificates and covers all deaths wherever they happened. The number of people under 45 who died of flu and/or pneumonia in hospitals only in the years 2001-08 (I can't find more up to date info) was average 952 per year; and nearly all of those were in winter, when footballers generally are playing. So on pure numbers, summer football with coronavirus may be little different in terms of danger than winter football with flu.
No-one is suggesting that they should be forced to separate from their families for several weeks. The option is there. If they don't want to be separated, then they need not take up their place in the World Cup Finals squad, and give it to another player who is willing to separate from family because he wants to play.
The same, of course, applies to domestic football.
Just seeing that League 2 have decided upon basing the final table on "average points" achieved so far, I think if that happened in the Premier League, then we would finish above Villa, but level with Muff on points. But we have ONE goal better goal difference, so stay up.
The Daily Mail says relegation is on the agenda for a PL meeting on Monday and implies we're not in danger whichever of the common methods they use to decide things:
No wonder we're opposed to restarting. We're in the sweet spot by the smallest of margins.
I believe that the concerns expressed by Pearson and Deeney (and others) are genuine but it does worry me, from a purely selfish football view point, how this will impact their performance, if the EPL does go ahead with project restart.
Will their understandable concerns mean that they are not 100% focused on winning each game?
It's fine margins at this level and I fear their justifiable negatively may cost us dearly on the pitch.
Cor blimey, how is that relevant or meaningful to what has been stated?
The point is: if some people can not die from it, then by definition it can not be "anyone" that can die from it.
It can not be "any" if there are some that are not included in the possibility.
The fact that @sydney_horn and @Burnsy upvoted your irrelevant and meaningless interjection just underlines how people have been letting their personal biases get in the way of recognising simple facts, even if those facts are basic word definitions.
So, talking of simple word definitions,what do you mean by “can not”? I take it you mean that it is impossible.
People “have not” died, that is true. How do you know that they “can not”?
I guess it's just in their nature to be outspoken in the media but reckon they will be up for it when/if the games kick off.
You almost knew Deeney would be the captain quoted in all this and we all know Pearson doesn't think much of the Government reaction to all this.
Bet Andre Gray wouldn't mind playing if Troy doesn't!!