What Next If The Season Gets Voided?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Hogg-DEENEY!!!, Mar 19, 2020.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I agree. If that’s how I’ve sounded then it hasn’t been intentional.

    I would say that if our captain, who has a loud voice at the club & who will undoubtedly have been involved in a lot of the talks regarding the restart, says there’s not a lot of info being given and he’s thinks it’s crazy to be contemplating it as quick as they seem to be - then that’s something really worth listening to.

    I personally still think it will be voided. There will be too many players not prepared to play.
    Ybotcoombes and Jumbolina like this.
  2. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Troy Deeney spouts nonsense at the best of times, this is no different.
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    As I say don't think the players themselves are worried about getting it on the pitch bit maybe not being there if a family relative gets it.

    Glenn Murray for example apparently lives with his father who has asthma so has a point to be concerned.

    Trouble is because he plays for Brighton people just think he is looking for an excuse to not play ..

    Like with Troy.

    He'd probably say the same thing if we were mid table ..

    You'd think this would have all be sorted out in private and not played out in the media.
  4. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    I had said for a long time this season should be cancelled and the focus should be on how the next season can be completed normally. If this means cancelling all European games for next season then so be it.

    The players should not be asked to play if not safe to do so, but this does not mean general social distancing has to be stopped for everyone first. There are many jobs where accommodations have been made so people can work and get to work.

    Footballers in the PL need to realise they get paid so much because the general public pay so much to see them work. They may have to make some accommodations (like isolating from family members) to start working again. If they do not want to do this they could always ask to be furloughed?
    lm_wfc, Sahorn and wfc4ever like this.
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Why is what he has said nonsense? He has a new family at home which I’m sure are his main concern in life, and I’d be certain that he’s been privy to far more information than you about the restart.
  6. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    They're all more at risk from getting in to his car.
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    You keep repeating this line...doesn’t make it anymore relevant.
  8. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    He's made it pretty clear that if they don't want to pay him if he doesn't want to work in an unsafe work environment then so be it. Like most human beings, they put family first.

    To suggest that players should be forced to be separated from their families so that someone else can be 'entertained' is shocking at best.
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    He gets a bit grumpy when he's hungry.
    Burnsy likes this.
  10. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Not sure about the fans part but a lot of it sounds like a bloke looking after his family and putting them first. Absolutely spot on
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    It is relevant, it highlights that his whole "I don't want to play because I want to keep my family safe" schtick is either phoney, borne of a lack of accurate information, or moronic.
  12. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Nonsense when no doubt he still drives.
  13. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

  14. another_mrlizard

    another_mrlizard Squad Player

    Well, we've entered the Irony-Free Zone this afternoon, haven't we?
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Comparing deaths by Coronavirus to deaths by car crashes is irrelevant because it can be dubunked a number of different ways. This has been pointed out to you but you persevere.
  16. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Hull City?
  17. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    So you're saying because I drive to work I'm not looking after my family?
  18. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The argument being made is that 20 pre-tested players are highly unlikely to give each other the virus and cause a family member to die, less than the risk of killing yourself or your family when driving them in the car. Whether this is true or not, no idea, but that is the thrust.

    What I do think is that players playing in June in an environment where testing is constant and population is finite, is less risk than the rest of us getting on the tubes in 3 months time.

    I'd still void it though - too many unknowns.
  19. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I've not seen anywhere where you've "debunked" it.
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I suggest you google the simple theory that car crashes are as deadly as coronavirus. You won't find many articles that support your theory when compared with the number that don't. The fact that they may have similar death rates is extremely irrelevant when its taken in the con tact of sport and human contact. And in a number of countries, they don't have similar death rates anyway! More people died from the virus in the USA in one month than died in the whole of the country from car crashes in a year...

    You don't need me to debunk it when people far cleverer are doing that all over the internet. Come back to me when they find car crashes are contagious.
    GoingDown likes this.
  21. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Are you Cathy Newman?

    I'm saying that the risk of someone in the UK aged 15-45 dying in a car from a road traffic accident is slightly higher than the risk of them dying from coronavirus (I already posted the data here: http://wfcforums.com/index.php?thre...season-gets-voided.56919/page-16#post-2845561 ).

    Therefore (dependent on your ages), by driving a car you are taking a risk to life that is simply higher than the risk posed by coronavirus.

    Whether taking such a level of risk counts as "looking after your family" or not is up to you. However,the point is that TD, any many many others, will already be regularly engaging in such an activity without crying "woe is me, I don't want to do it as it's so dangerous for us" in the same way that he now is about what is actually a less risky proposition. It's dishonest/hypocritical, ill-informed or foolish. If they're not worried about the risks of driving a car, they shouldn't be worried about the risks posed to them by coronavirus.

    (And this is all before you consider that footballers will be tested more regularly than the average man on the street has been during lockdown)
  22. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    This is too simplistic, though, isn’t it?

    Psychologically, there are risks we have long since internalised and accepted - driving, flying, eating TD’s green Thai curry.

    The brain reacts differently to new, unforeseen risks, such as a sudden threat of nuclear war, a shark in the water off Bondi Beach, or deadly viruses for which there is no known cure.

    It’s not about statistical risk. The human brain doesn’t process things in that mathematical way.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  23. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Yeah but can you drive the Coronavirus to the supermarket to catch a car crash?

    After all, driving is so safe they don't even bother with airbags these days.
    Burnsy likes this.
  24. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Putting contagion aside, LowerRous is right when you look at certain age ranges. But at the end of the day it's a virus. It's going to kill people. Contain the spread. Hope for a vaccine or we'll have to live with it and find treatments that mitigate the seriousness of it.

    Cancer kills 160,000 a year in the UK. It kills 10 million a year globally. The world needs to live with illness unfortunately and getting hysterical is not going to help.
  25. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    But this isn't about going down the park in two months time. This is about playing football, a spectator sport, now, in the middle of a pandemic.
  26. So if it goes ahead as expected what sort of frame of mind will Troy be in ? Up for it or sulking that he has to play ? Maybe safest to just make sure he's not fit or off form so he doesn't have to get involved ? I'd much rather our players were psyched up and raring to go.
  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I agree. Not sure anyone is getting hysterical mind you...

    When cars were first introduced in their earliest form - and you put as many of them on the road as there are now, then there would be deadly crashes galore without all the safety features. To the point where it would almost certainly be stopped until it was made safer. No one would be saying don't drive again ever though.

    We are in the infancy of living with this virus and nowhere near enough is known about it. And anyone can get it, and whilst death rates in certain age groups are low, anyone can die from it. Personally, I don't think its hysteria to suggest the brakes are put on a while longer while more is known about the virus - I remember nearly two months ago, stories saying some clubs wouldn't last another week...well as far as I know, every professional UK club is still operational. Football will find a way to survive if they don't play for another few months.

    If we send out every 15-45 year old in a car now for 24hrs - and send out every 15-45 year old to hang out with one another for 24hrs - do we really think the death rate from those two events will be the same in say, 1-2 months time? This is why I find the comparison weak at best.

    The world does need to learn to live with it - but we are early on in that respect. I don't think asking players to hole up away from their families just to finish a football season is the best foot to be starting off from in 'learning to live with it' within the sport.
    Knight GT likes this.
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I've had a look at some articles, Washington Post, LA Times, etc. and I've seen nothing that gets even close to conclusively debunking the specific assertions I have made. Maybe I've not yet stumbled across whichever articles are supposedly out there that are written by people who are somehow "far cleverer" than me, but probably they don't exist.

    For one thing, these articles have tended to take the mortality data more as a whole, including death rates for older and less healthy people, which obviously makes the stats worse, whereas I've been referring to healthy people of a footballer's age (and younger). I've also been specifically referring to the relative risk for footballers, which includes regular testing and monitoring (which will obviously reduce the risk even more, even though the comparison would still be a fair one even without this additional layer).

    Secondly, the other main point which they keep bringing up to try and debunk the claim is the one you casually made earlier about the coronavirus being able to grow exponentially. As I've already explained in a number of ways, I simply do not accept this as a claim which makes the comparison invalid. There can be things which are contagious with the potential to grow exponentially, but are not deadly, and there can be things which are very deadly despite not being contagious. At the end of the day, even despite this coronavirus being as contagious as it is or isn't, it has still not led to many deaths at all of relatively young, healthy people.
  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Why do you think its not being widely said by those within the game to these 'fearful players' and their clubs that they should stop driving? You'd think if it was so simple and straightforward that they'd be making these comparisons all over the place no?
  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    This statement is quite clearly false. Callum Hudson-Odoi is an "anyone" and he didn't die from. How is that Callum Hudson-Odoi can belong to the group of everyone that is "anyone" and still "can die from it"? Are you going to travel around somehow destroying every single person on Earth's immune systems to the point where it would be literally impossible for them to survive the coronavirus if they caught it? Because that's pretty much the only way in which your statement could possibly be true.

    Yes they probably would be (or the deaths from coronavirus probably less).

    You're forgetting that there were already a couple of weeks in Europe where parties were still going on while the coronavirus was already going around - look at the tonne of cases which originated from the all-day parties at the ski resorts around Ischgl in Austria for instance - none of the people infected in such circumstances have died.
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    The question at stake is not about whether the players should stop driving - they all do it already while easily accepting or ignoring the still incredibly small risk of doing so.
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Of course it is.

    If Aguero/Sterling/Deeney/Murray say they are fearful of playing during a pandemic, why do you think not one person within the game has turned to them and pointed out your analogy about them being more at danger driving and used that back at them?
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Why is the statement that ‘anyone can die from it’ false? Literally people of all ages have died, irrespective of what rate that’s at.

    Trying to say that’s ‘clearly’ wrong is just bizarre.
  34. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I was being pedantic - I suspected that was what you were wanting to ask, but then you should not have framed the question in terms of why players aren't being encouraged to stop driving. You should have originally framed it: "so why aren't players being encouraged to play considering the fact that they're still driving?"

    Luckily for you, I already typed an answer based on what I suspected you were trying to get at:

    As for why the comparison isn't being made more, or is being downplayed or attacked by some, perhaps people are doing so for the opposite reason to why Trump did make the comparison.

    It may serve some people's interests to try and play up the risk from the coronavirus, and it may serve other people's interests to try and play down the risk from the coronavirus. Often it simply comes down to an individual's circumstance and/or political motivation.

    I came to my conclusion based on the data before I even knew Trump had made his statement, and obviously before Deeney had made his. Sometimes you've got to look past the political spin to get the facts. Maybe Deeney isn't really that worried about playing, but Watford would rather the season be voided and so have encouraged his stated viewpoint?

    Thinking more specifically about the case of footballers returning, perhaps the low level risks aren't being framed in such a way more often because clubs and the football associations are afraid of receiving a similar amount of backlash from the thousands if not millions of fans out there who are similarly unwilling or unable to accept or understand such a concept and are still overly worried about mortality.

    Further to that, a lot of people out there don't understand nuance particularly well and how the circumstances of a footballer will differ from the general public. Policy makers will therefore try and keep messaging as simple as possible (e.g. "stay alert"), though this still doesn't stop people such as Deeney possibly managing to get the wrong end of the stick with regards to more specific policy details.

    It could also be that the government is still encouraging a general over-statement of the level of risk posed by the virus in order to ensure that the public remain obedient and don't flaunt the general measures. Football in turn is having to generally toe the government line at the moment.

    Lastly, maybe because of how the supposed risk of coronavirus has been blown up to some extent, maybe there are also some people out there worried that pointing out such data would rather just make people afraid of driving, rather than less afraid of cornavirus?
  35. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Sure. Sensible thing is to void it and focus on plans for August. But we can’t empty our bowels every time we think about normal life as some here do.
    GoingDown likes this.

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