We didn’t deserve that...

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Vicarage Road, May 19, 2019.

  1. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    yesterday was horrendous. Anyone who came away from Wembley feeling good because we sang and waved our flags until the end needs their heads looking at. The performance our team put in was absolutely diabolical. The team bombed yesterday as in recent weeks because the weak areas in the team were not addressed by the owner last summer.
    It was bad enough driving home last night but it feels worse this morning, it feels similar to a bereavement. I simply can’t understand anyone who said they had a great day. We lost 6-0. SIX ******* NIL!!! I couldn’t give a toss if the City support thought we were amazing because we sang at 5-0 down, it’s irrelevant. We stayed until the end, singing and waving flags in ‘84 and were **** that day also, so nothing has changed.
    In all the years I’ve been supporting this club and I’ve seen some crap, this feels right up there with 5hitest of 5hit, magnified yesterday because Watford FC bottled in front of a world audience. The players were pathetic and I feel ashamed to be a watford supporter today.
    Did anyone else notice as the players came out for the second half, our lot WALKED out ALL looking down to the floor, as opposed to Man City, JOGGING on to the pitch, eager to get going? What the **** was said in our dressing room at half time? We had given up by then. A ******* CUP FINAL AND WE GAVE UP AT HALFTIME!!!!
    I’ve never left a game early in my life but on sixty minutes I was so tempted to sneak off but I stayed until the end, witnessing our players receive their LOSER’S medals, feeling sorry for themselves. They’ll all fly off somewhere nice with their families now, probably forgotten yesterday already. Me? I’m hurting and will stay hurting for weeks.
    It wasn’t just yesterday, it was the last few weeks that have really p1ssed me off. Again, the players down tooled. Since the cup semi, we’ve been an absolute shambles. You have to seriously question the mentality of this club because its a continuous theme. It happens every season, going all the way back to 2013, when we didn’t show up against Palace in the play offs, after the high of ‘the Deeney’ goal. The players looked like competition winners yesterday. We play in the same league as Manchester City for GTs sake! I could understand yesterday’s result, had we been a league two side and somehow miraculously got to the final. I’ve seen some clips on twitter of some of our fans playing at the Vic last Friday, there was was more passion, excitement and emotion seen there than in our players yesterday.
    This post won’t be popular on here because I know the majority don’t like slagging off the team or singling out individuals but yesterday really, really hurt. If Gino doesn’t address the weak areas of the team properly this summer ( we all know where they are ) we’ll be planning our trip to L*t*n Town this time next year.
    To finish on a positive note, fair play to our fans yesterday, we turned up and did our job, it’s just a pity the players couldn’t be arsed.
    I’m glad it’s end of the season, because right now, I don’t think much of our football club. I need two months to calm down. However, If I see any of Kiko, Janmaart, Kabasele, Mapps, Pereyra, Success or Deeney anywhere near the starting line up come the first match next season, I’ll walk out.
    Have a good summer everyone
     
  2. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Only read the capitalised words but tend to agree.

    Things will be even worse when we go back to work tomorrow to cop a load of abuse from assorted arm chair fans of other clubs. Oh well.
     
  3. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    It'll be worse than abuse, it'll be patronising sympathy.
     
  4. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    We had a party to go to in the evening and everyone kept saying to us "we are so sorry" It got very irritating.
     
  5. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I'm just going to deny I even support Watford. 'Not me, you must be thinking of the other Brian mate'.
     
  6. "Ahhh well at least you got there and got to have a good day out. Let me make you a cuppa."
     
  7. another_mrlizard

    another_mrlizard Squad Player


    Awwwww, poor you, have a ******* Freddo.
     
    Rozerhorn likes this.
  8. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    This sentence more than anything else you’ve written makes me more convinced than ever that you’re a troll, who never writes anything about our club other than to slag our players off. At least Nath seems pretty sincere with his opinions and his posts aren’t littered with inaccuracies like yours above and GoingDown’s brand of irony is sometimes mildly amusing if limited.

    I could understand Mapps, but the rest?? Kiko, who along with Doucs has probably been our most consistent player over the last two seasons? Say what you like about Troy based on yesterday, but it was clear the team really missed him during those crucial home games against Southampton and Wolves. And even Success has some use as an impact sub, he was our most dangerous player against Arsenal and almost got us a draw. Fine walk out if you wish, losing “fans” like you will be no great loss to the club.

    Some people need to get some perspective FFS, and look beyond a 6-0 hammering and a supposed lack of effort in one game (I saw no complaints from us this season in this department up until the last three or so league games) and look at just how many points Man City have amassed in the last two seasons and the quality of the team they pipped to this season’s title, as well as looking more closely at the factors that caused our season to tail off the way it did and culminate in yesterday’s heavy defeat.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  9. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    @Vicarage Road You have every right to be upset and angry about yesterday. As many of us said, the fans were tbe best part of yesterday.

    The game was lost affer the third went in, and in many respects I do agree with you about them giving up.

    However, I will say this as my view on it as you have rightly given yours. Had it been Brighton, would we had sern the same lacklusture performance? I ask you that as an honest question.

    Was it the opposition? Were they generally scared of them? Yes we did try in patches but looking back the fear factor seeped in. It was men against boys in the end.
     
  10. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    Oh, and it’s pretty ironic VR calling for key players to be shipped out, which would be far more likely to result in the relegation battle he was gleefully fearing than if we kept them on.
     
  11. barker

    barker Academy Graduate

    Apart from the tactics of Gracia in the games over the last few weeks and the performance of the players. The entire club lost the plot and went mad with euphoria after the Wolves semi-final. Walking out to I'm Still Standing, ending games with Que Sera Sera over the speakers. Various players giving out a series of statements about 'we'll fight for everything, we'll give our all, we can do it, anything is possible' - and, as others have said, Company is going to find Deeney a threat/ problem stated by the man himself. All this talk about it being a once in a life time experience, people flying in for this particular match (much more special to see us play Cardiff on a cold wet day in December). What do we 'deserve' then?
     
  12. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    Sorry chap but I’ve got to question your judgment. Do you seriously think Kiko has been one of our best players? He can’t defend for toffee, was at fault for two goals yesterday and countless others this season. Yes he can play triangles and combinations with Hughes and Gerry but that’s all he brings to the table. Crossing and stopping the opposition scoring he can’t do.
    As for Deeney, had the big ‘I am’ not got himself stupidly sent off against Arsenal, we may have gone into yesterday’s game with some momentum. He spouts off way too much bollox in the media, which makes me question his leadership. His performance yesterday was pathetic as his head was the first to drop
     
  13. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    No you won’t!:D

    You’ll have calmed down by next season and probably like the rest of us be thinking
    ‘We go again.’

    Enjoy your summer VR.;)
     
  14. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Agreed. People need to remember that in 1880, we didn't even have a team to achieve a record defeat in the FA Cup Final.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    It was the "most consistent player" bit that surprised me - Kiko was injured for most of last season!

    And some of this to.

    I think he is a good attacking player but not sure about the defensive abilities but then we can say that about most of the team!

    Mariappa has been better than some of the other players mentioned but yes we do need to look for younger, fresher defenders I feel - and hope Kabasele can re-gain some sort of form.

    Deeney is a odd one - we seem to miss him when not in the team but sometimes isn't that effective when playing but you know he will keep trying...can we say some of the others do?

    Success could be a good player - just needs to stay up right more and pass to someone in a yellow shirt/whatever our away kit is!
     
  16. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    We lost the play off final against Palace, in extra time we looked like we had less intensity with Zola not animated and focussed than the palace management team. But we got rid of nice guy Zola.

    We had a horrendous season after that. A year later we really got into our stride under Joka, but then we drew the last game of the season at home and let slip the chance to win the Championship.

    We were hopeless in the following years FA Cup semi final despite The percentage football of Flores coaching.

    We gave up after hitting 40 points under Walter, despite good results earlier in the season, because no one wanted him to stay, and our medical team could not fit a plaster.

    This year has been pretty good, but on reflection that home game with ten men against Arsenal looks like it drained the energy and form out of the first 11. I feel to kick on it's not two or three trophy signs; we need a stronger match day squad.

    Our subs lack the quality to reverse results (with exception of Gray who does score from the bench). So it's about improving the match day 16 as much as the first 11. We need hungry players who see a first teamer drop in form as a chance to grab that starting place by the throat. Honestly is Success going to take Deeneys starting slot. Is Sema making Pereya look over his shoulder. Is Cleverley going to fill the gap, that makes a big offer for Decoure or Capoue look like a deal that won't critically weaken the team?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  17. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about some sympathy for the team, but not at all it was all about personal self pity that we had lost, admittedly by a high score.

    However, I think WE (The Team) did not deserve to lose so heavily, in fact I feel the scoreline flattered City. I can't argue that the last few weeks have indeed been frustrating, and I wish we had done better, but to slag the team off like that was not a fair reflection of the game or our overall season. FFS for nearly 30mins we were right in it and probably should have been in the lead.

    Having said that, I do believe we need to make improvements, especially up front, because IMO that is where we are losing games, because we are not clinical enough. A fact that was shown up yet again on Saturday, because we should have taken the lead, but yet again we wasted the clear cut chance we created.

    If we manage to get a clinical finisher or two to take advantage of the many chances we create, that in turn would take some pressure off our over worked defence. I see no need to spend much money elsewhere, maybe just a tweak or two in defence, but nothing too major.

    If we do that I think we can look forward to just as successful season next year and probably an even better one.
     
  18. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Problem is as soon as we go behind against one of the top teams, defeat is inevitable. Doubly so as soon as deulofeu is taken off.

    It's indicative of a group of players who lack desire and heart. In that interview with capoue the club posted before the match he stated he doesn't even like football!! God help us.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  19. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I don't necessarily agree with everything you've written but I certainly understand it and where it comes from. City were very good but some of our defending was comical which is the area we were all concerned about
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    A well meaning post to try and see the glass as 'half-full'...

    The scoreline did not flatter them though. Juts because we held off for 30 minutes before the floodgates opened, the following 60 minutes and the second half in particular, were a complete ****-show and we shouldn't defend the players just because of the gap in ability or because we are Watford fans. In the cold light of day, they let themselves down. They threw the towel in and wanted no more of it. Man City scored a goal on average, every 10 minutes after the 1st. That wasn't just down to their brilliance. They missed another couple of chances - it genuinely could have been 8 or 9!

    The saying is 'its not how you start but you finish' - and too often we have been ****ing atrocious at the business end of things. Fans are allowed to question that and want to know why it is a continual pattern. Deeney got overly aggressive with a fan at the At Your Place event in February for asking that very question - at the time, I thought Deeney was right to say that it was offensive to believe that the players had little professional standards or pride. But in the last 6 weeks, the question became more valid.

    Deulofeu has scored a few goals recently and we have some decent loanees coming back to take a look at. The club will not be spending the precious money we have on a striker IMO. But you can't seriously believe this defence only needs a 'tweak or two'?! Kiko simply is too easy to play against as a FB - he's better higher up the pitch and his defending skills are not great. Holebas has been a revelation this season - but age has caught up with him the last couple of weeks and his defending is nothing but average. His standout performances this season have been when he's been going forward, not back. Cathcart is a good professional. And I'd like to see if his form improves with a solid, quality CB next to him - but in reality, two CB's of First XI standard are needed and Cathcart is an able deputy. Mariappa is not good enough. Decent guy and sure he's great to have around the training pitch due to his professionalism and manner - but he is not good enough.

    Any substantial purchases are needed in the backline. It's painfully obvious.

    And the club should be looking for the next Watford captain in this window IMO as well. Bar his occasional idiotic soundbites, I think Deeney is a decent captain off the pitch. But he is nowhere near the leader the side needs when he's on the pitch. He doesn't set any professional standards to those around him. When the chips are down, his performance levels go and his head is amongst the first to drop. That isn't the actions of a leader. I'd like to see us put in place the leadership model of a 'Club Captain' and 'Team Captain'. Deeney can remain club captain - he's suited to the role.
     
  21. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Bloody hell, Saturday was not good admittedly, but we’re going into our 5th season in the Prem, have reached an FA Cup semi-Final and Final in that time. Have just finished in our highest position for over 30 years, we get a bloody nose and the football fans 30 second memory comes into play.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    TBF - who gives a **** about Saturday - we were soundly beaten by one of the most expensively put-together sides on the planet?

    We joined a reasonably exclusive 'club of clubs' such as Huddersfield (19/08), Shakhtar Donetsk (7/11), Southampton (4/11) and Chelsea (10/02) not quite an exclusive group as Burton Albion (09/01) nor the duo of Rotherham (16/01) and FC Schalke 04 (12/03). But far more exclusive than Cardiff (22/09) and the 'double headers' of Burnley (20/10 and 26/01).

    I think the dip in form that led to us 'losing' 7th if far more worrying.
     
  23. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Far too many happy losers in the squad and in the stands.

    It'll never change either as any new arrival will be sold the club as a stepping stone and the fans are conditioned to accept it. As Richarlison proved.
     
  24. The uninformed

    The uninformed Academy Graduate

    Having watched Watford over the decades , I've learnt that enduring mediocrity (and, at times, downright awfulness) makes the occasional day in the sun all the brighter. Why did we (the fans) perform so well on Saturday? Because just being there - at an FA Cup final - meant more to us than winning the damn thing by 6 goals meant to the Citeh fans who consider Wembley "Etihad South".

    Similarly how good did it feel to thrash Cardiff at their place in February? I felt like I was walking on air towards the end. I can't imagine it would feel like that if we routinely trounced other PL teams. We've had a handful of very special occasions over the last 30 years or so that I've been at. It isn't a massive hit rate - you need to be patient. But when they come along they are ridiculously wonderful days out.

    Of course I'd love it if we were as good as City are, but I will accept the occasional bloody nose as the cost of supporting a team over the long term.

    As for Saturday, I winced as goals 4, 5 and 6 went in but ended the day feeling proud of my club and fellow fans.
     
  25. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    I'm not trying to be argumentative, but how were you proud of the team after that performance?
     
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  26. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    What makes you certain that some of our players are happy losers? Happy the game was over and to get out of the stadium maybe, but surely not happy with the manner of the defeat?

    TBH, pessimistic and/or overly condemnatory statements like yours and VR’s don’t really help anyone or anything at the club in terms of morale and progress.
     
  27. The uninformed

    The uninformed Academy Graduate

    I wasn't particularly proud of the team. I was proud of the club and fellow fans. But, that technicality aside, I wasn't actively un-proud (is there a word for un-proud?!) of the team either. City have better players. Its taken them 11 years and an unlimited budget to accumulate that squad. We've spent peanuts by comparison and pound for pound I think the team compares well. It isn't their fault they faced a better bunch of players. I don't think it was for want of trying. Pereyra was awful but I don't think he missed that chance or fluffed every attack because he wasn't fussed. He just wasn't good enough.
     
  28. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    Just curious, in what way do you think Mapps isn’t good enough? For the level we’re currently at, the level we want to get to assuming that’s possible, or just good enough for the Prem full stop?

    I accept he’s a bit of a polarising player and we need to look at someone younger and more to offer if we want to progress, but to me within his limitations, he has reasonable positioning, is strong one-to-one against most forwards and has made a fair few crucial interceptions. When I think of errors committed by our CBs, I can’t recall any really bad ones made by Mariappa, unlike numerous ones by Kabasele, Britos and even Cathcart. His only real weakness is his poor link-up play, but that’s not as vital in a CB as in a FB.

    And Jota not so long ago found it tough against Kiko...

    As for tailing off badly at the business end of the season, you have a point, but up until that Shane Long goal less than a month before the end, we were still maintaining the high standards of performances and results that saw us as surprise contenders for a Europa League place until Wolves’ win against Fulham, and even in the final three home games we played some good stuff sporadically. Let’s hope we can play for the full 38 games at the fifth attempt next season!
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Tbf Mapps was at fault for the Palace goal in the quarter final game .

    I think he is more of an old fashioned type of defender - not great on the ball and just likes making blocks etc .
     
  30. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I think Mapps is a better player than many on here give him credit for. He may not be a top PL defender, but I would say he deserves to be in our PL squad as he very rarely lets us down when called upon.

    In fact I would be happy to hold on to him ahead of some of our other defenders, maybe not as a regular starter but as a very reliable player to bring in whenever needed, either at CB or FB.
     
  31. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Palace at home in the cup. Huddersfield away in the league. There's two in about a month.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  32. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I do think he's definitely worth keeping around the squad, he's one of us and his attitude is second to none
    He started off fairly well, although has dropped off alarmingly in the second half of the season
     
  33. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    In April 2015 Leicester City were desperately trying to avoid relegation and 7 points adrift from safety. A year later they won the Premier League. Mostly the same players, just a different attitude and mindset. The following season, with almost the same players, except for Kante, they said that they wouldn't win it again and that they "need to avoid relegation", and they had a poor season. No wonder.

    Football is mostly about attitude. I despise defeatist negativity. I can't help that, it is just the way I am!

    I just hope that our club treats our cup defeat as a mere step in our growth and development. From their statement, they seem likely to be taking that stance. Wanting to learn from our losing experiences is something positive. I said before the game that I expected us to win, but if we lost I'd be over it in a day or two and will be looking forward to our success next season. That is what has happened. I'm in a good place.

    We were almost in admin in 2012, we are now a mid table Premier League team and FA Cup Finalists with a couple of players that could be worth about £70m between them and a handful of promising youngsters, with a cracking little ground and reasonable training facilities. We havn't gone backwards, we have grown each year and we are better off than we have been for years. I bad result Saturday does not change that.

    That display of flag waving support near the end on Saturday was so important to the club.

    But accepting a result does not mean that we are happy with it, or that we shouldn't try harder to do better next time. It merely means that we have a better idea where and how we can improve.

    So I just hope that the club do not wallow in misery and "humiliation" that this heavy defeat has "inflicted" on some of our fans. These "fans" will be using this result as an endorsement to continue with the negativity and moaning that they have inflicted on us for the whole season, despite the considerable improvements we have made. "Anger" means nothing when it inevitably starts after a Watford player gives the ball away in the first minute of the first match, and then continues over most of the 38 games.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    Rozerhorn, Sort of OK and vic-rijrode like this.
  34. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    He’s good enough to be 4th choice and home grown to boot. He has spells where he is outstanding. The problem arises when he is first choice for an entire season. He has too many lapses in concentration, makes too may erratic clearances and his distribution is a problem. Over a whole season he isn’t good enough for the premier league. I’d keep him and Cathcart and sign 2 more CBs.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I have nothing against him as a squad member and I think it’s clear he’s popular within the group. And as backup to make the odd appearance, I have no problem with him staying at all.

    Take the fact that he’s ‘one of our own’ out of the equation and just imagine if we’d signed him last summer and this season was his 1st at the club - I think many would be saying he’s a bit of a dud with the occasional decent game and we should have signed better.

    While I like that Gino and Co have kept up our links to the days before they arrived, I wouldn’t be against moving on Deeney and Mariappa in the near future. Mariappa as a first trainer and Deeney as captain - we need to start the ball rolling on a new kind of leadership in the squad IMO.

    The obvious roadblock to that is Deeney will never allow the captaincy to be taken away from him while remaining at the club.
     

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