Watford FC 2-2 Southampton -13/01/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steel City Gold, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I explained why I disagreed with you in a civil manner, clearly enough for six other posters to agree with me. It is you that spent your last two posts entirely attacking me rather than defending your opinion. As I said, just get over it, or just ignore posts that disagree with you.
     
  2. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    That’s how any sane person would read it, who isn’t looking for an excuse to dig out the manager.
     
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Shame. Oh well I did try.
     
  4. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    No you didn't. Not in the slightest.
     
  5. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    That was Tuesday.
     
  6. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Given the same could be said of Zeegelar and of Holebas and given they've been recruited by the same people, perhaps defending isn't 'sitting at the top of the list'. Probably you and I would agree it should be, 'though.
     
    Ghost of Barry Endean likes this.
  7. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I think Zeegelar, Holebas, Kiko Femenia and (I'm less sure) Janmat all started out as wingers.
     
  8. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I'm not convinced he'll go with 2 upfront at Leicester, nor necessarily that he should do. I've got no real problem with starting away matches with Gray on his own upfront, as long as Silva is ready to change the system if needed later in the game. Where Silva really needs to stop being so stubborn is in refusing to play 2 upfront at home against teams who will almost certainly set up to defend deep & hit us on the break.
    We are not good enough to just play 'our way' no matter the situation.
     
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I’m not sure of the point being made here when only Femenia out of that lot is good enough as a wing-back. And the jury is out really given he’s only played a few months so has some progression to be made yet until he can be called consistent. Whether they started out as wingers, full-backs or goalkeepers doesn’t really matter - a wing-back has to be equally adept at attacking and defending with the latter being the primary focus. Playing Richarlison as a wing-back when his main focus is attacking and he has never played as a wing-back? Sometimes I wonder what planet people are on.
     
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Agree with his. I think Watford have made a fundamental error is signing converted wingers as their wing backs. They should really be looking for converted defenders as secondary wingers supporting Richarlison and Carrillo.

    We missed a trick by not signing Gibbs. He would have been a perfect fit. This is what is so frustrating. The club didn’t want to pay that little bit extra to get him, so wasted money on Zeegelaar. It’s false economy. Now we have a poor player on a 4 year contract, and another poor player signed up for another 2 seasons.

    I rarely criticise the owners, but this is one of those times that they have got it wrong.
     
  11. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Thought we played very well in the second half, Gray is far better with someone alongside him, as is Deeney for that matter. Hopefully Silva realises that we need to play a little more direct, with a bit more tempo and spend less time trying to pass the ball into the back of the net.

    My biggest worry is that Silva is more concerned on continuing to promote the Silva style/philosophy of Football rather than doing what's best for Watford.
     
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  12. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Government bureaucracies are hopeless at measuring the population. For instance, recent research suggests the U.K. government has underestimated the electoral turnout by 5-10% over the last 20 years.

    7.5bn figure isn’t necessarily wrong but do allow for a substantial error factor either way.

    More broadly, fears of an unsustainably increasing population have been voiced ever since Malthus over 200 years ago.
     
  13. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Gray patently cannot play on his own up front (and neither can any of our other strikers). So why are you happy with him doing it away from home? We must play with two, otherwise we are relying on something brilliant from midfield to have any hope of winning any game with the current personnel.
     
    Ray Knight likes this.
  14. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Okay - everyone's aware of this now, but seeing the still pictures really does highlight how appalling the defending was on the second goal yesterday (the first was also terrible, but I think this one tops it on the crapometer).

    1: As the ball is cleared to Shane Long, note the positions of Tadic (11) & Watson, Ward-Prowse & Zeegelaar (22), and - shockingly - ref Roger East
    vlcsnap-3827-08-21-21h07m37s829.jpg


    2: Within Four seconds, both Tadic and the ref have sped past Watson:eek:
    vlcsnap-3894-10-11-10h17m56s149.jpg


    3: The ref and Tadic have now left Watson for dead. Not even in the shot!
    vlcsnap-9578-08-27-00h23m01s234.jpg


    4: A further four seconds later, Ward-Prowse now arrives on the scene, also running past Watson despite starting behind him near the edge of his own box. But is this Watson's man? Where's Zeegelaar, who was goal side of Ward-Prowse ten seconds ago!
    vlcsnap-0075-01-28-02h37m49s869.jpg


    5: Ahh, here he is! 20/25 yards behind Ward-Prowse now, leaving him with an easy finish. Absolutely atrocious:mad:
    vlcsnap-5529-07-09-20h35m37s229.jpg


    Regarding the penalty appeals on both Gray and Okaka - the blatant foul on Gray actually occurred on the edge of the box. How the ref hasn't given it is staggering - but I suppose his worst error was yet to come. Hoedt was stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity when he made the foul, with his defensive colleagues too far away to have prevented Gray from shooting. Therefore, a probable red card had the foul been given:
    vlcsnap-6022-05-22-00h51m33s413.jpg


    And Okaka's two fouls in the box are also clear examples of being manhandled/wrestled by the defender(s) and them getting away with it scot-free. Here's the first one:
    vlcsnap-0722-07-01-00h14m36s365.jpg vlcsnap-2157-08-11-21h47m43s288.jpg


    And here's the second, being pulled by two defenders:
    vlcsnap-5237-05-16-06h29m59s180.jpg vlcsnap-6719-11-07-15h44m52s384.jpg

    Doesn't change how bad we are defensively, but if the media/pundits want to dissect the handball - then lets have a bit of balance and include the other decisions that were appalling.
     
  15. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    The bizarre thing these days is that all over the pitch you see examples of what I call the ‘Premier League free kick’, which is when there is a physical collision between two players and the one that falls over invariably gets a free kick despite there not being an actual foul. (This happens much less in the Championship and below.) However, when it comes to the penalty area, especially at set pieces, all sorts of illegal manhandling are allowed, as shown here.
     
    3000, dynamo380, UEA_Hornet and 7 others like this.
  16. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I totally agree with this.
     
  17. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    That’s truly scandalous defending, I’d defend Watson slightly more than Zeegelaar as he’s a midfielder not a defender, but even then he’s supposed to be a DM, but if he’s not doing that job then what is the point in him being in the pitch? Don’t get me stated I’m Zeegelaar, an absolute waste of space of a defender, a classic example of when the ‘Pozzo model’ goes catastrophically wrong and regularly costs the team actual points. My other observation is don’t we do any sort of pre-game? Surely we must be aware that Shane Long is a speed merchant? So why are are full backs and DMs giving him the full Vicarage road pitch to show us how fast he is?
     
    Jossy and Nelson like this.
  18. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Good sequence of pictures by Jossy-IIRC i think if you sequenced the first goal from the moment Zeegelaar lost out when trying to boot it clear rather than the obvious head clear out. he jogged back rather than chased back which again left W-P a clear shot. Its not all down to him but as others point out where is the commitment let alone the natural defensive instinct to rectify missing out in a challenge.
     
  19. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Except, of course, for the fact our excellent early away form was based on....Gray up front on his own. I see no benefit in ignoring that fact. If Gray is told to drag the defence all over the place, (which he is very adept at doing), for 65-70 minutes, then we can make a change as required and bring Deeney or Okaka on either as a direct replacement or alongside him, as the situation demands. With the way most PL teams set up, us going 442 away from home right from the start would be a dangerous formation...for us!
     
  20. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The problem is if we stick with one up top I imagine Silva will go for Troy given his excellent second half on Saturday and while I agree with you on Gray I think Troy up front on his own will lead to an ineffective performance at Leicester.
     
  21. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I fully agree...my stance on this is that our default starting set up should differ depending who we are playing.

    Anyone away START with Gray alone up front & change when/if necessary.

    A side that "expects" to get a result against us at the Vic START with either Deeney or Okaka to try to ensure the ball at least has a chance of sticking so we don't get too overrun early on.

    A side that we "expect" to sit deep at the Vic & hit us on the counter (as per Saturday) START with Gray and Deeney or Okaka.

    In all 3 instances, I stress the term START....Silva needs to realise when it isn't working much earlier & before the game's dead & buried. 0-2 at HT vs Chelsea & probably Burnley = no realistic chance of a comeback.
     
    Paulubana and Jossy like this.
  22. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Graham Taylor would never have countenanced this type of approach.
    Play your most effective team from the start and impose your style on the opposition. Don’t just try and react after you find yourself losing.
     
  23. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    How did gabbiadini look in his cameo?
     
  24. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Except we do not have players comparatively good enough to do that now...we did then, but compared to what we're playing against now, that approach is just not sustainable. MAYBE when we have 90% of the squad fit, not something like 60%.
     
  25. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange


    I have to be honest , I’m not a tactician and my views maybe naive but In the first part of the season we looke really good, the midfield was strong and we seemed to be able to play up through the pitch at speed without loosing the ball, meaning that we ended up in the box with 4 or 5 players.

    With all of the injuries we have we now seem to really struggle getting the ball and enough players up the pitch quickly to form an effective attack and it looks to me like our best tactic is 2 up front. Hoof if from our own half to Deeney , who brings it down and lays off to Gray (or whoever else has managed to hobble into the box)
     
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  26. nascot

    nascot First Team

    Like a dreamboat.
     
  27. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    But that’s just the point. BECAUSE the team is weakened by injury we should be employing our most effective striking combination. At the start of the season with everyone fit and Richarlíson fresh we were succeeding in spite of Gray playing on his own up front, not because of it.
     
  28. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Danny Kelly reckons everyone could see it was a clear handball - did you?

    Must admit wasn't so obvious from the middle of SEJ stand..
     
  29. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I must say I was surprised and then delighted that it was allowed but then I was surprised and demoralised that two penalties were denied!
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  30. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I’m not a great fan of Gray, but to say ‘in spite of’ him is entirely missing the point of the clear positive contribution he made to those performances, whether that fits in with the general consensus or not.
     
  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I've watched it in the replay and without the aid of a gif, with his hand coloured red, I can't see it's a handball
     
  32. Nuandy

    Nuandy Academy Graduate

    The ref linesman missed the 2 Okaka Fouls so with eye-site that bad he had no chance to see the hand ball
     
  33. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK Reservist


    That is a fine piece of work sir, I am taking my imaginary hat off to you at this very moment.

    Insert row of clapping emoji's
     
    Jossy likes this.
  34. Dennis_Booth

    Dennis_Booth Reservist

    You think we made an error signing Kiko ? His absence is a significant part of why our form is not so good. Please can you elaborate on Gibbs transfer negotiations i must've missed reading these 'facts'.
     
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Why don't you rate Blissett? He's one of our best ever strikers.
     

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