Watford FC 2-2 Southampton -13/01/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steel City Gold, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    We on the forum knew Zeegelaar couldn't defend and that his positional sense was awful before he joined through a bit of basic internet research. How is it that our recruitment team didn't know this ? Or didn't they care? The shopping list said "one left back, cheaper than Gibbs" and Z ticked the only box that needed to be ticked.
     
  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Couple of points, who should play instead of Watson and why is it that jokanovic has not made it to the PL yet? Do you want him because he got us promoted?
     
  3. simpleMASH

    simpleMASH Reservist

    Kabasele wasn’t it?
     
  4. Jossy

    Jossy Reservist

    Did people notice that Silva was dressed in his tracksuit yesterday? I know he has been for the cup matches, but every premier league game up until now he's been in his suit. When I spotted it yesterday, I wondered if it was significant. A bit like him saying " I've zero respect for this job now". Of course, might not mean anything.
     
  5. Pozzo Out

    Pozzo Out Squad Player

    The scarves display looked fantastic, however if I had one complaint about it, it made us silent as Z-Cars played as nothing replaced the bog standard applause.

    What the bloody hell was that game?

    First half was shambolic, started okay for the first 5 minutes and then completely collapsed. I turned said to the fella who sits next to me as soon as the ball started heading down the right hand side for the first goal, that Ward-Prowse would score, lo and behold 10 seconds later it happened through our Left back position again. Again. Never replaced Ake. Now if I can see that, as a fan, who has no expertise on the game, then why can’t the board, Marco, or even ******* Zeegelaar, it’s absurd!

    I think enoughs been said about the second and don’t want to get wound up by it any further.

    Deeney’s performance was everything I’ve wanted to see from him for 18 months. I’ve been very critical this season of Deeney, but I feel like that was his best performance at least since 15/16, playing in a pair and in the right role, he was able to create chances for others and we looked much more threatening. So when Okaka comes on and suddenly there’s no Grey to come in behind, it dries up the chances, I cannot see in the slightest what Silva was trying to do here, it should’ve been obvious that two similar style strikers would’ve been in too similar positions, and we’d seen it before! Baffling.

    Got there in the end, but Christ almighty was it a struggle, and still doesn’t particularly fill me with hope.

    Edit: I’ve just reread this and it seems incredibly negative. Wasn’t intended to come across this way, just some thoughts and more questions since yesterday.
     
  6. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Like others, I thought our performance in the 2nd half was really good - but it demonstrates what I have said several times, it is mainly about attitude.

    Yes, Deeney had a great half, possibly his best performance for a long, long time, but the majority of the players were the same as we had for the majority of the first half, but the performance was transformed. It is the coaches role to get the teams attitude right on the pitch, for the majority of the time, he is substantially lacking in that regard, and some of our players do not have the mindset to battle through a tough time on their own.

    Yes, our defence was woeful for their goals, but once again a lack if movement up front was key to our problems. One typical incident (that was highlighted by Arakel at the time) was when Richy was taking the ball forward down the left. He ended up pretty much surrounded by 3 or 4 defenders and was struggling to get a cross in, yet Gray continued to trot towards the far post (he was marked), and Cleverley continued to trot towards the near post (he was marked), and no-one was backing Richy up - not a hint of support. I'm screaming in frustration to "Help him!!!!" but of course he loses it, a good chance gone. Cleverley should have got closer to provide a short option, and Gray should have darted towards the near post, trying to get space on the off chance of a cross, with Pererya and Carrillo busting a gut to get near the D. It is all well within our players capability, yet the mindset, the determination, the attitude just isn't there. All that can be coached in the same way that the Man City players have been coached to play (without the ball) like they have never played before.

    As has been said, all our defenders have faults, they are average Premier League defenders, and to transform the defence, we either need far better coaching, or about 4 replacements. Neither of those are gonna happen, so our priority must be a for an attacker who would create more danger himself with movement and anticipation, and finish clinically more often than not. But if that doesn't happen, then I think we have to persist with trying 2 up front for a while. I'm not sure how it would work out but it would take a bit of pressure off our back line and that can only be a good thing.

    Certainly, if Deeney played like he did yesterday, (winning headers and possession, nice flicks and less moaning), for 75% of his performances, then he should be staying, but sadly, it is more like 10% and that just isn't good enough for a Captain. Both he and Gray made complete hashes of great chances yesterday, when chances are at a premium, we just need someone more clinical.
     
  7. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    We do. But we won't be buying an expensive high quality clinical finisher. Too expensive.
     
  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Sorry yes, having just rewatched it you are correct. As it happened in the left back position I thought it was him.. I’ve turned into John Motson :eek:
     
  9. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Why forget Leicester? They're the only team we've beaten in ages lol :)
     
  10. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    We upped and left as soon as their second went in. My mate said we should stay out of respect to GT but I was too drunk to care and left anyway. Sounds like the second half would have really done the great man proud, and he'd probably have been disgusted at us quitters (we weren't the only ones mind).

    But that first half was up there with the most abject in living memory.
     
  11. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    Equally it could mean doing something different and a fresh start. GT loved a tracksuit - could have been a tribute to him.

    I've got reservations about Silva, but his choice of attire doesn't strike me as significant.
     
  12. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Didn' see the handball in real time, i was sat the wrong side of the keeper. So Mod was the first time I got to see it and I dont think it was deliberate. Handball definately but not blatant cheating like the mahrez dive against Chelsea for example.

    About time a decision like that went out way
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I know, and when I wrote that I knew it would be picked up on. But Leicester are a different beast at home, and are currently the best side outside of the top 6, imho.

    There are very few games left that I believe we can win, and to think we have to win at least 4 more is a bit of a long shot.

    With the way we are playing I see little hope we’d get anywhere near 40 points. Only Stoke have conceded more, and unless some miracle occurs and we learn how to keep clean sheets, picking up points is going to be very tough.

    Good coaches can have bad results, they can have bad runs of form, but not many have a record as bad as ours over the past 15 matches. Just 3 wins, 2 draws and 10 defeats and yesterday’s game should have been another defeat, only for an illegal goal to stand. Do good coaches have that sort of record to their name?

    When it gets to that stage it only goes one way. Rarely does this kind of form turn around, unless there is a change. Be it a new coach, new signings or returning injured players. None of which seem imminent right now.
     
  14. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Almost a whole team

    Femenia, Kaboul, Cathcart, Hoban
    Hughes, Chalobah, Cleverley
    Success
    If you can't support the team in bad times you don't deserve the good times.
     
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    People were trying to compare to that Henry one against Ireland when he handballed it twice to stop the ball going out of play....

    Seemed to me he simply missed the header and it hit his hand probably at pace and so close to the goal.
     
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  16. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Thats how I read it. His arm was up already when he tried to head it. Thing is he didn' need to handle it, it was an open goal. If he connects with his head first its in anyway.
     
  17. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think it was a mixture of half cheating half accidental, if there can be such a thing. He was running quickly towards goal and he would obviously have had no intention of handballing it at that stage, he just sort of chucked his body at it and it ended up going in off his arm, he could’ve moved his arm away but obviously didn’t. It’s not even close to being in the same bracket as Henry, he deliberately moved his hand towards the ball to keep it in.
     
  18. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Don't disagree. Leicester will be very tough and even a point would be good. They gave Chelsea a good match yesterday. Hopefully they play a strong side on Tuesday night and fatigue might creep in (straw clutching!)
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  19. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Really pleased that Deeney looked more like his old self yesterday. Like others don't see Silva starting with a front 2 at any point. Surely we'll be in for a left back this month, regardless of who the long term manager is, it is clear a more defensive minded one is needed!
     
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Agreed- I'd be asking how he managed to miss the ball with his head - maybe just sums us up atm!
     
  21. domthehornet

    domthehornet Moderator Staff Member

    37 should be enough, there are some awful teams in these league, shame we are one of them.
     
  22. Fantastic comeback yesterday, full of passion, determination and attacking intent. A corner has been turned.


    Just saying.
     
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  23. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Bobby P's number is also thirty seven.

     
  24. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    There is a 4 game spell from match 31 where it will be make or break. Away to Huddersfield and home to palace, Burnley and Bournemouth. Throw in a 3/4 of other very winnable games and it’s still very doable to get 40 given we are on 26 points.

    FWIW bookies think we will get 42/43 points.

    If we play like 1st half yesterday I agree we won’t win a bean though. It might help that we have 4 games coming up now that don’t feel “must win”. Stoke is a “must not lose” but the others feel like game where points are a bonus.
     
    I Blame Pozzo likes this.
  25. cpm82

    cpm82 Academy Graduate

    Still can't understand we're still 10th. The pack are catching up though.
     
  26. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I believe this is very much in our favour.
    Not our position but the fact that there are so many teams involved in the mire.
    Some will clearly overtake us,Palace,West Ham seem the obvious form teams.
    The remainder will take points from each other and given the head start we have,one would hope it is sufficient.
    If Silva and Gino/Duxbury continue with this feud/disconnect then that may not be the case.
     
  27. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    It is quite simple that if we are to stay up we have to improve on the last three months form. We are getting less than a point a game at home and losing most of our away games. We have seven home games left and eight away. That means we are on course for another 7 to 10 points - that will not be enough.
     
  28. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The way I see it, the last 15 games have been a disaster on the whole. But even in that we still managed to pick up 11 points. If this bad run is replicated, then it takes us to 37 points, which may be enough.

    My big worry is we don't appear to be improving. We have too many games where we play like the first half yesterday. Form seems to be getting worse. They seem to have to be looking down the barrel before responding.

    The second half was far better, but it relied on Deeney and a paint stripping half time team talk. Why do we have to have that sort of motivation before we get going?

    I do not have a lot of faith that this Watford team can motivate themselves sufficiently to get points on the board to see us safe. I believe it's going to the wire and, like last season, we'll only stay up because of the failures of others. Luckily for us there seems to be a lot of sides that are badly out of form, although we are the worst on current form.
     
  29. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Serves you right, missing an exciting and entertaining second half
     
  30. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Over how many games? We're 17th over 6 games, 15th over 5 games (either of which is the standard measure of form used by the media) and 18th over the 15 games you regularly mention. Not disputing what you're saying as I haven't worked out every possibility, so which are we worst over?
     
  31. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Maybe. But it wasn't hard to be our best player in that first-half when you look at the competition. And what's more - attacking and midfield play are someway down the list of his responsibilities. Sitting at the top of the list is 'defend' ...and he can't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  32. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Yesterday's game was billed as the two teams bottom of the current form table. It's probably taken over the past 9 or 10 games. Where we've lost 7 drew 1 and won only 1. Don't forget yesterday should have been a defeat also, so a bit of luck has rescued us.
     
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I think the formation Silva picks at Leicester is massive. If Silva changes his ways and goes 2 up top then then fact he has reacted would fill me with hope for the remaining games. If he goes back to one man up and same old same old then expect more dross performances. The current formation he uses needs Femenia, Chalobah and Hughes imo.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  34. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Why is it a write-off? We are in bad form, true. But I don't agree that we should just discount the Leicester game - 6 points against them and Stoke and we'll be set in the top 10 comfortably. It’s difficult, not impossible. 4 points in definitely not out of the question. You are overreacting far too early. We have not got worse. You say people are fooled by the league table but I think you are speaking like we have some divine right to be further up the table. Its pretty much a fact that outside the top 6, anyone can beat anyone and the teams are much-of-a-muchness at the moment - that makes a mini-league of 14 teams of which we are 4th at the present moment. Hardly a disaster.

    You say at half-time Silva's P45 was all typed out but I can only assume that was typed out on your computer. No way were Watford FC going to sack a manager mid-season when they sit in the top half of the league. If the season ended tomorrow, they would class it a success - as would many others I suspect. Thank god that the powers that be in this club aren't as reactionary as some of the fans. We cannot win every week. We cannot play pleasing football every minute of every game. Silva is in a challenging moment when it comes to team selection, his hands are tied a bit at the moment and he needs supporting from the recruitment and medical teams.

    I have highlighted the bit that I really struggle with. Because I do agree. But what is our answer year after year? Mutually agreeing to let the manager go and the same happens again. So why do you think thats the answer here? What evidence do you have to support that getting rid of the manager changes things since we have been in the PL? I'm not saying it's you but plenty of people have said we should let him go and replace him with Jokanovic? Where is the evidence to support he would change things given he has never managed in the PL?

    I understand your right to voice your opinion but it is continuously negative. You talk like you are the only one seeing the light and anyone who doesn't see it is deluded. Maybe it's just that a lot of others realise we don't have a right to be anywhere other than exactly where we are right now?

    The standard of football has been dreadful too often in recent weeks But for that to improve and to play in a more attractive, free-flowing manner, we need this injury-picture to clear up and to invest in solid defenders. It is no coincidence that we looked so much better when we had a fuller squad to pick from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    He won't pick two up front at Leicester away, I'd say thats pretty much a given.
     
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