Watford Fc 2-0 Rotherham - 08/12/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Well at least the next game has come quickly meaning that hopefully we don't have to stew on the aberration that was Cardiff for too long. Out fought, out thought, out maneuvered by the kind of Championship team that will do well in this shortened season simply by being committed and organised.

    Deeney was half right in his post match analysis when he said that we had been "old manned" by Cardiff. They were more aggressive and dominated the physical battles. But to allege that they were doing so to stop us playing good football is wrong - we've played very little of that all season. And of course, what Deeney is really getting at is that the younger players got intimidated and need to stand up and be counted, a charge that might be a bit easier to digest if he hadn't lost almost every header and physical battle himself with Sean Morrison, who was able to enjoy a proper pipe and slippers afternoon against our static talisman.

    The feelgood feeling at the start of the season feels like a distant memory. A tough talking, winning coach to come in like a new broom and finally put down a disciplinary marker and get the squad pulling in the same direction. We started well, looking tough to beat and could accept that it was a work in progress but sooner or later we'd get the players back and we'd click. But Preston aside, we haven't clicked and whenever one player comes back, another one becomes unavailable. We've beaten some teams without ever looking that fluid, just relying on individual bits of quality or errors. But more often than not, we've looked horribly disjointed, slow to move the ball, passive without it and with next to no cutting edge. In three out of the last four games, we've haven't scored but of even more concern is that we only had one shot on target in each of them. We're now seventh and that feels about right for the performances we've put together so far this season.

    It feels like we're approaching crunch time for Ivic. Hughes is now back and has to start, the one player capable of passing through the lines of a packed defence when under pressure. We can't continue to rely on players like Garner and Quina week in, week out as they're just not ready for senior football. Returning to a back three at the weekend seemed a huge backwards step, particularly as a central midfield pairing of Cleverley and Garner just isn't strong enough. Capoue has to come back in too, even playing as he is, he is far better than any other option. And after watching a first half that Cardiff dominated via their set piece threat, it was very concerning that Ivic's solution was a straight right wing back for right wing back change, especially as he's confirmed Ngakia wasn't injured. Sema looked like he was still feeling the effects of Covid as he was outmuscled a couple of times by prep school prefect and school diving team captain Harry Wilson.

    The opposition

    Rotherham are hovering just above the drop zone and are in rancid form. They've lost six of their last eight and are shipping goals left, right and centre. So we know what's coming... sit in deep and make us break them down. If we move the ball as slowly as we have been doing recently, they might well keep us out. A draw at 3/1 looks quite appealing, particularly as we have only scored two goals in our four games against the teams below them.

    They are nicknamed the Windy Millers and their most famous fans are the Chuckle Brothers, a loveable pair that sported the classic Rotherham look of flat top and 'tache that 80% of the town still opt for today. Other famous Rotherhamsters include super trendy politician William Hague, David Seaman and Howard Webb, the ref that missed the World Cup final kung fu kick by Nigel de Jong.

    [​IMG]

    Rotherham don't really have any players that you would have heard of but Freddie Ladapo did score a couple of goals against Bournemouth recently and is their top scorer with a measly four goals, just one behind our top scorer Joao "in need of a rest" Pedro.

    Their manager is part time Tommy Mooney lookalike Paul Warne. He has only managed Rotherham but did get them promoted so one can only presume that he knows more about football than Mooney, whose mindless co-commentary witterings are a lowlight even in this frustrating season. We're all for a bit of partisanship on the club's own commentary but Mooney seems to be on another planet with his analysis - bring back Derek Payne to mangle some of the new names like Perica and Ngakia I say.

    [​IMG]
    In 2014/15, we beat them 2-0 at their place in a game best remembered for Tommie Hoban's turning into a winger to assist Gianni Munari, and for Lloyd Dyer's outburst at Sannino, and then easily dispatched them 3-0 at the Vic with a brace from Ighalo and one from Deeney.


    Looking at the line up from the second game that season shows a lot of what we are currently missing. A midfield three of Ben Watson, Toszer and Abdi had steel, creativity and a deadly set piece threat. Our current options are a pale imitation. And we were able to bring both Ighalo and Deeney off and bring on Vydra and Forestieri - again a quartet that was perfectly balanced. For all the talk at the start of the season about how strong our squad is, give me the 2014/15 crop anytime.

    Let's be honest, Rotherham are rubbish and if we can't beat them, then Ivic might have one game to save his job.

    1-1 draw.

    Recommended team (4-3-3): Foster; Ngakia, Troost-Ekong, Kabasele, Femenia; Capoue, Hughes, Cleverley; Sema, Perica, Sarr.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Well the Rotherham manager has asked for a reaction from his players after a poor defeat so will Vlad get one from ours?
     
  3. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    We are out-gunned
    (What!)
    Out-manned
    (What!)
    Out-numbered, out-planned!
    (Boom, boom, boom; boom, boom)
     
    tonycotonstache and miked2006 like this.
  4. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Desperate times despite our false league position. Ivic has to be bold. Drop Deeney for Perica for a start and get the pace out wide. Tell the players to attack and believe in themselves. How hard can it be to tell someone like Sarr to go and go. And for the midfield whenever they see the option to play it forward especially when Pedro and Sarr are desperate for the ball down the channel or over the top ?

    Players like Kiko, Wilmot, Hughes and Quina are what we need. Not afraid to get forward and create something. Another draw or stolid effort will just see the pressure mount on Ivic. We should get rid of Troy and Gray and other malingerers as soon as we can. And why an earth Murray is out in the cold is another unanswered question. Why an earth was he brought in the first place if there was no intention of playing him ? He won't gain fitness sitting on the sidelines. It's a thoroughly depressing time.

    For those who say some of us on here are doom mongers and negative well there is nothing more than we would like to see the club sitting on top of the division clear by several points putting in performances full of energy, skill and verve. Not the dross that has been served for the most part so far.
     
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  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Surely this fool will not play 5 at the back at home to Rotherham?
     
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  6. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.
    CICERO
     
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  7. ISO

    ISO Academy Graduate

    We should be well and truly sussed now in this division. It couldn't be easier for any half competent side to set up against our 'team' of half arsed wastrels who blatantly have no faith in whatever game plan Ivic wants them to implement.

    Rotherham will do what a team like Rotherham can be expected to do; sit deep with men behind the ball and hope for something on the counter. They can have every confidence in getting a much needed result against our stinky pile of steaming horseshit of a side.

    We'll predictably and despondently go through the motions, knocking the ball from side to side and backwards with all the urgency of a spotty teenager at 7am, have maybe two shots on target at the very most, and inevitably lose to a breakaway goal.

    Glad I'm not going.
     
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  8. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Another huge game with Brentford to come soon, and another banana skin, of course Rotherham are not a great football team, but they are another team who are a great threat at set pieces, and they did get a point at home to Bournemouth (and arguably deserved to win that game). Will be a difficult game, but one we can't afford to slip up in
     
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  9. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    This is a big game its important to bounce back after the weekend, fully expected us to dominate possession and create naff all as usual. Hopefully, we see Capoue and Hughes start in the midfield for the first time this season. Swansea and Bournemouth play against each other on Tuesday so its a chance to catch Muff up in 2nd place or go above Swansea. I think if we don't win Ivic's probably needs to go, that would be one win in six which is not acceptable for the squad that we have at this level.
     
  10. ISO

    ISO Academy Graduate

    Sure he would. He's switched to it at half time when 3 points were there for the taking.
     
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  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Watching Spurs, we just need to get the ball to Sarr, quickly. It’s that simple.

    Then when Sarr gets it he has to be positive.
     
  12. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Individually, I think most of this current crop are better than the 14-15 vintage, but we are just so lacking in certain areas at the moment, whereas that team was just so complete and well-rounded
     
  13. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Watford 6-0 Rotherham

    Tough evening for the bedwetters
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  14. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Ivic's Yeovil. 0-3
     
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  15. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    2-1 Watford, in another game where we show flashes of what we're capable of but where the overall package is unconvincing
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  16. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    I agree but in the 14/15 season, we had goalscorers.
     
  17. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Hope we get battered. Wet mattresses all round.
     
  18. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    They've scored the same number of goals from set pieces as us and conceded the joint most in the league from them. No reason we shouldn't be dealing with them properly and causing them problems. Oh wait I forgot, we don't have anyone remotely capable of consistently putting in a decent ball.
     
  19. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The big question is whether Ivic will have the guts to drop Troy for Perica.
     
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  20. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Even if we had 2014-15 Deeney, Ighalo and Vydra up top, we wouldn't get the ball to them nearly enough, players like Capoue and possibly Chalobah have had more success at Premier League level than any of the midfield from 14-15, but they don't have that magic to unlock defences like Abdi had (Cleverley is still kind of useful, but past it, and Quina and Garner are talented youngsters but far from the finished article). We are beginning to look a bit like Stoke when they got relegated, aren't we?
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  21. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Our record from set pieces is decent this season (we seem to get a lot of them tbf), so for them to be level with us in that regard still marks them out as a danger (especially as it's a bit of a weakness for us). Garner is extremely frustrating, I can kind of forgive him for being very up and down in open play (and since he's so young, you'd hope he'll come good later in the season), but surely if he can put in a good ball once, he should be able to do it regularly?

    On paper of course we should batter them, but yeah, I highly doubt we do batter them, I think it'll be a half decent 6/10 performance, probably enough for a win, but not a statement win like we all hoped Preston might be
     
  22. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It's a good fixture for us. Just the sort of team we need to play in order to purge the memory of Saturday. This is no disrespect to Rotherham, but they know where they are in comparison to us in terms of ambition this season. They want to stay in the Championship, we want to get out of it.

    We are light years apart as clubs, but that means nothing if we don't put in a performance.

    It's actually nice being a big fish for once, but if we're not on it, they will turn us over......as any club in the Championship would.

    Vitally important to start on the front foot, get in front then play the game out. This is where Ivic is strong as that's his mantel. Problems occur when we concede the first goal. When that happens we're sunk.

    I'll think we'll win this one, but I don't expect another Preston type walkover.
     
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  23. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Pretty ambivalent, a win and a good result should be a given but it won’t necessarily change anything in the wider scheme of things. A bad result and we should be one step closer to the required change. Not even sure what result is best for us. Ivic is in danger of turning into Ole, always getting the right result at the right time but the real problems never get addressed.
     
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  24. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    I am hoping Hughes can help with the creativity, I don't think we are looking like Stoke in their first season, we are a few points off top spot they were in the relegation zone at this stage of the season in their first year in The Championship.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  25. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    It takes a brave man to start up the new thread after the last two 'team' performances.
     
  26. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Oh I'm not completely writing us off yet, we're still in the hunt (I bet Fulham and West Brom fans must have had similar meltdowns at various points last season and they still both went up, and this season's Championship is probably worse than then), but as it stands, there are a lot of square pegs and round holes in this squad. Hughes will improve us creatively, and having Capoue next to him regularly should help too, but a) how much can they improve us (Hughes is brilliant, better than anyone we had 6 years ago, but I wouldn't say he's as creative), and b) even if we had the second coming of Dennis Bergkamp in our team, how much difference would it make with the strikers we have?
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  27. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Rest Sarr for this one.

    2-0 home win.
     
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  28. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Dump the bollard, start Perica or even Murray. Go 442, and have Sarr, Hughes, Quina and Pedro in the middle. Wilmot and Kiko and two from whoever's fit.

    See how we go for 45mins. If it's stale then change what isn't right. Cannot play like we have done from now on. Cardiff must of been a wake up call. Another crap shoot display for the third game in a row then goodbye Ivic.
     
  29. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Thing is we are not a terrible side but we are very very boring, slow and ponderous.

    we could definitely gain promotion , we are only 4 points of top, problem is I’m starting to think we won’t, a bit like at 60mins in a game when you can clearly see we are not going to score,

    I think Mooney’s cometary on Hive is 100% correct , we are too slow, our wingers stay out wide and don’t come into the box to attack the far post, we are slow attacking, giving the opposition time to get into shape and as he keeps saying (attributed to GT) 10 shots on target gets you a goal but we don’t cross into the box effectively and don’t shoot.

    hope that Hughes will add something , think we need to stick with quina and ngakia as they seem most likely to generate something different

    don’t know what the answer is but running the ball into a congested box isn’t it.
     
  30. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Rotherham will be a very physical team .

    If Perica plays he’ll have to learn to stay up more often.

    Same with Sarr.

    They will probably make the likes of Bournemouth and Cardiff look like angels in the aggressive department.

    Any free kicks we win are usually wasted anyway !
     
  31. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    I am not going to take my shot
    I am not going to take my shot
    And yo I'm just like Deeney I'm old slow and hungry and I'm not going to take my shot
     
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  32. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Sadly this has Yeovil Zola written all over it......
     
  33. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    If we lose this one, out of protest, I’m not going to unsuccessfully apply for tickets for the rest of the season.

    Not that I know how to apply, or that I’d bother given I’d rather do absolutely anything else in the world right now.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  34. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Recent form is tipping me towards Ivic out... almost.

    And guess what? We really need a striker in January.
     
  35. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    They're not known as "The South Yorkshire Brazil" for nothing.
     

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