Watford Fc 2-0 Huddersfield Town - 16/01/2021

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Johnny Todd Sings, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    There's our problem....Troy & Achilles do not mix well.
     
  2. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    He's a no. 10
     
  3. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Sigh. If you really need it spelling out for you. Some people think Deeney was decent yesterday, some people think he was crap. I think it was a 6/10 performance, some good bits, some bad bits. I still think he needs replacing, and pretty urgently.

    You somehow misread this post, thinking the only positive I could think of was shouting instructions. I've popped the positives I saw in bold for you in case you struggle again.

    You've also somehow interpreted that post as me seeing Deeney as "key to promotion". Honestly, where did you get that from? Again, he needs replacing, and has been completely sh!te all season, bar about 3 average/decent performances. Hence me wondering if you can read or not.

    The debate is about his performance yesterday. Perhaps people have different definitions of 'decent' and that's fair enough. But sadly you've completely failed to grasp that discussion and conflated it into thinking people want him starting, which they don't.
     
  4. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Another belter. Still, no one has said he's a number 10, try again.
     
  5. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    We don't have a Doucoure type player in midfield who would be able to support a lone striker and get into the box. That's why at the moment we will likely need 2 CFs, otherwise we will be even less effective as an attacking force as we are now. Unless Xisco can come up with some sort of system I am not currently seeing with a lone striker.
     
  6. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    You have as much clue as Gray does about football.


    Foster
    Femenia-----------Wilmot---------------Sierralta----------------Masina
    Cleverly
    Zinckernagel---------------------------Hughes
    Sarr--------------------Pedro----------------------Sema​

    Zinckernagel and Hughes to play beyond Pedro as often as possible.Push Kiko or Adam alternately using Cleverly and Wilmot as a deep pivot. Sarr and Sema to get into the box on the opposite side of the attacking fullback cross and stay out wide when not to open up the space for the two attacking midfielders. Pedro free role. Press hard from the front five. Christ we are thin on the ground for decent replacements upfronts though. Ngakia, Kabasele at the back , Garner at a pinch in midfield but upfront ? Deeney. Gray ? Awful. And no Perica again.

    If you read Graham Taylor In His Own Words he talked about formations. They were not set in stone. You work with players in combinations so that they instinctively know where their team mates will be. It provides those extra precious moments of time to cut through defences. I already mentioned before that Pedro needs a partner. I have said he is not a classic nine target man. He needs the ball into his feet and he is very good at distributing from deep and then attacking the box. Take a look at the effort saved by Schofield and then his goal. Zinckernagel and Hughes running beyond him would offer one option. As an opposing midfielder tracks them he can pick out a wider player or fullback and then attack the box or hang off it for a cutback. There are numerous permutations which I could show with diagrams and rather wordy descriptions. I am sure reids would agree with all of this. Our in week training on combinations and set pieces needs far more work.

    Suffice to say you blithely ignore all of this as you have done with any criticism of your pals Troy and Andre. This formation was posted in the week and offers Pedro a free role. Not to stay up there as a target man. Needless to say no more hoofball and actually playing to our strength on the floor and utilizing the pace of him, Sarr and Zinckernagel who can shift.
     
  7. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    I have posted this formation. Any coach worth his salt could come up with tactical ideas and combination work to increase the number of chances and meaningful shots on goal. It does not mean you have to automatically have two strikers. Pointless anyway when you have two dodos upfront.
     
    Helsinki Horn and lutonh8a like this.
  8. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    As I said @wfcmoog, Deeney played more of a number 10 role than a striker yesterday. Not that he is, or should be, a number 10. Whether he was asked to do that job, or he was just genuinely incapable of getting into the box, I'm not sure.

    Here's Deeney's and James Maddison's heatmaps from yesterday. Can you tell which is which?

    upload_2021-1-17_11-59-1.png

    upload_2021-1-17_11-58-33.png
     
  9. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Possibly, after looking again.

    But Robinson clearly went for the ball and was late, and was only a foot or so from the ball when he made contact. Deeney's tackle, even taking into consideration how slow he is, was quite thuggish in my view, and would have easily broken a leg if it was the standing leg, and the ball had long gone.

    https://www.caughtoffside.com/2021/01/16/video-deeney-somehow-escapes-red-card-after-horror-tackle/
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  10. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    I have to disagree about his strength. Yesterday he used his strength well on numerous occasions. Holding the ball up and turning to attack the defence. He smashed McGuire over at Old Trafford too.
    Anyways we wouldn't need to smash balls towards him if he had a three behind him that are quick and have good movement, which we have. Pedro is very adapt at dropping off his marker to receive the ball and lay it off or turn to attack.
     
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  11. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    ;)
     
    cyaninternetdog likes this.
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    And ofcourse the Chelsea players didn’t help by screaming in the air and getting in the face of the ref which Huddersfield didn’t do.

    Deeney tackle was right by the touch line - a Mourinho or Klopp would have had him in a head lock !

    BTW why are we comparing Deeney to one of the best attacking midfielders/number 10s in the country!?

    What next - Vardy v Gray ..?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
    Carpster likes this.
  13. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    What's mental about it is how clear the intent is - it's very obviously a decision he's made to go in in that fashion.

    Even if he was twice the speed he is and somehow miraculously teleported in front of Bacuna enough to get the ball, the main intent of the tackle, having thrown his entire big-strong-boy bulk behind it, is to 'reduce' the opponent - it's so telegraphed you can hardly deny it.

    It's the heart of the Deeney mentality and mythos; you can see it shaping everything he does, warping his own mind, and it's just so pointless. Why, in that situation, would you ever need to put in a violent reducer like that? You're a centre forward (or a number 10, who knows :eek::confused:;)); it's not even in your job description. You certainly don't need to be putting yourself about to let them know you're there. It's not like they can't see him already...
     
  14. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Literally [​IMG]
     
  15. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I don’t believe anybody is saying he shouldn’t be replaced, they are saying he was ok yesterday. My point to you was you were quoting a post but conveniently missing out parts that didn’t fit your argument
     
    WatfordTalk likes this.
  16. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Not the first time, either. Leeds game as mentioned, Arsenal(?) and the Stoke game where he tried to pop Joe Allen's head
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  17. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Didn't think so. :p:rolleyes:
     
  18. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    That's kinda the point though isn't it. Pedro, Deeney, Gray, Perica wont be as effective up front on their own so the coach 'worth his salt' has decided that 2 up front works best at the moment. Us fans will have our own ideas about positions and players and formations and post them on here if we like, but right now I believe (and so does Xisco) that having 2 up top works best with the current squad at the moment.
     
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think it’s frustration on his part. Seeing younger, more talented players run rings round him on both teams the only thing he can do to try and influence the game is try and hurt them physically and ‘let them know they’re in for a game’, or at least try and give them the pretence they are.
     
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  20. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I suppose my point is that the reasons being given for him having done ‘ok’ (I disagree he was ok) yesterday, are all basic pre-requisites of any footballer. They aren’t things that deserve praise, they are things to expect and assume as an absolute bare minimum. My opinion is that he’s now such a limited player that starting him is harming us. He does not score goals, and all the attributes that made him ‘ok’ yesterday are attributes every single one of our players should posses as standard. As he is no longer doing his job then literally any other player would be better in his place. The worst case scenario is that they also don’t score any goals, but at least they might be able to.. run, work hard, make runs etc etc etc.
     
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Put it this way, if all 11 players did as much as Deeney does, would it be an 'OK' team performance?

    A load of players whose peak contribution was knocking a sideways pass to a team mate in a neutral area of the pitch?
     
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Don’t forget shouting at other team mates.
     
  23. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Orange.
     
  24. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    An OK performance for a keeper wouldn't be knocking a sideways pass to a team mate in a neutral area of the pitch, would it? Come on, engage your brain!
     
  25. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Slow down, don't get lost again fella
     
  26. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    It shows what a big club we now are the level of moaning after a 2-0 win.
     
    WatfordÉire, ISO, Arakel and 5 others like this.
  27. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    what if they were playing the no. 10 role?
     
  28. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Then yeah, 6/10 I'd say
     
  29. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Decent, I believe, would be the term.
     
  30. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    For all his captain leader legend talk/identity, he's just not in control of himself; it's crazy. You'd think he'd grow out of it, or learn, or whatever, but you just can't say he has. If it's not going his way, he's a potential liability, even now.
     
  31. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

     
  32. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    That was a tough watch for numerous reasons
     
  33. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Actually, the more I look at it, the worse it looks. The ref didn't have have VAR and I can see why he wasn't sure. It was a nasty tackle which hurt the guy. But it was also stupid - it could easily have been a red, - and for what?
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  34. Pozzo Out

    Pozzo Out Squad Player

    Troy will be fuming when he sees the first few post-match pages of this thread, as we know he comes on here/searches Watford Twitter for his little jibes at supporters who think he’s past it. But he’ll be absolutely ******* himself to sleep after seeing WT’s unjustified defence of him.

    (No harm intended @WatfordTalk think you’re a reasonable poster on here compared to many).
     
  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Abacab?
     

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