With defeats for Leicester, Muff, West Ham and Everton, and Wolves' unlikely win, our draw looks like a missed opportunity to stake a proper claim for 7th.
We are as inconsistent as all the others. They can all make the same claim. We'll never be a 7th place contender until we improve the quality up front and in central defence. Do that, then we'll be a front runner or even favourites, IMO.
Again, I see the reasoning but don’t really buy into it. Outside the usual Top 6 - there’s a huge window for clubs to be the next best club on a consistent basis. No one is forgetting who we are or where we come from. But I think it’s time to start writing the next part of history. We will be 5 seasons in the PL next season - it’s time to drop this thought that anyone who pushes for more is ‘entitled’. I haven’t forgotten us getting pummelled at home by Yeovil. But we are a million miles away from that now. It’s not relevant anymore. The club has moved on so much under Gino and then more again since being in the PL. We may have spent longer in the lower divisions since 1881 but in the modern day, it’s simply not an important fact. We have a player who is being banded about as going to PSG for £50m. We have an Argentinian, England and Spanish internationals on the books. We should keep a sense of realism but I think we should be more demanding as a fanbase these days, not less.
Thing is, we look a 7th place team one game in 3 or so, but that doesn't get you 7th place. I'm looking at improving on QSF's 13th place finish and anything above that as a bonus. The fact is we all know/knew where we were weak and so it's proved
I think if we get 10th that would be a great effort by Gracia given the squad he was provided with by the owner. The two glaring gaps in the squad were obvious to everyone and it’s unrealistic to expect better than sneaking in the top 10.
Don’t get me wrong Burnsy I love the mentality of looking up positively. But that gap between best of the rest and 18th is not so big and a few bad results in a row and your back down in the slump. If that happens and we as supporters turn on our team as we expect so much more this club would sink fast. Just look at Burnley they have faith in Dyche and the supporters back the guy even though there in that slump. Ok if we achieve 7th place finish is it seen as a remarkable season as Burnley last year, I’d say probably not as they were heavily predicted to go down. Us not as much this year. But again would of we stuck by Javi in the same situation and the team from the terraces ? I really feel we are getting better every year and long may it continue but I’m also content with being plucky tin pot Watford punching above our weight rather than an Everton Aston villa west ham type that expect to be there. Like moog quoted improve on our best finish of 13th and a cup semi final first Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we have a better squad than every other team bar the current top 6, and should be challenging for 7th with Wolves. Picking a number, such as 10th or 13th, suggests that the other squads are better than us. Just who are they?
Just got me thinking - who would have thought a few years back a big famous club as they like to call themselves such as Newcastle would be happy to come to us and get a point? And the fact we are pretty disappointed to only take 1 off them in the 2 games. In fact given other results they could have done with all 3.
Football changes rapidly. I remember going to places like Leeds, Villa, Forest, Ipswich and we were very much the underlings. They had great teams then. I remember Coventry City smashing us 4-0 and clapping us off the pitch after a valiant effort in the Premier League. I remember Portsmouth beating us 2-1 and Kanu scored in the last minute, and I was left thinking we so nearly got a point at a place like Portsmouth. That's all changed now. We are the big boys and they are all leagues below us. Everyone of those sides would swap places with us in a heartbeat. We are now a top 10 side. We have to believe this and quietly demand it, with understanding. To progress, we are on the right path, but it's an ever treacherous path. Things can unravel very quickly if you allow it to. Watford's team is ready for the next injection of talent and I think it needs that little boost.
But the choices don’t have to be between trying to an Everton/WHU or being a Huddersfield/Burnley. There’s a gap in between those that we should be striving for. We don’t have the fanbase or finances to be the former - but we have the squad and owners to be better than the latter. My point is that we are entering our 5th consecutive season in the PL most likely. We are not tin-pot or plucky unless we behave as such. And the conditions are such that we shouldn’t do that. I fully expect us to improve on 13th this season. As for the cup, I’d be surprised if we ever take it seriously until we have a squad of 25 that is top-to-bottom quality. Look at the recent winners of both cups over the past 10yrs. Any team outside the Top 6 winning a domestic cup is an anomaly. I’d give anything for us to win one but it’s a pipe-dream for now. I’m not advocating turning on the players or manager if a few results go against us. But the OP was that we should have a mentality the same as Cardiff and Huddersfield and the condition of our club currently means that attitude makes no sense whatsoever.
Really? Since I started going in the mid-90s we'd always been on a similar track to Pompey. Never saw them as a club of bigger stature than us, even when they were having their moment in the sun under 'arry.
Ok it was LuaLua, not Kanu who scored in the last minute. I stand corrected. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...l-at-sea-as-kanu-inspires-victory-424893.html
Think they scored a penalty late on .. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6138902.stm Don't think Andy was happy !!
Sorry.....I assumed you were, as that's your forte on this forum. They had a good side in those days, if only for 2 or 3 years, but we were certainly in their shadow when we played them.
Pretty sure that during his reign Harry employed our Luther to coach the Portsmouth forwards on shooting during a barren run. I seem to remember it had an instant effect. Maybe Gino should use Luther for our forwards.
If you judge Gray by his minutes per goal record in the premier league for us and UKIP FC Burnley, he is clearly a premier league striker. He also runs around a lot in a good way.
He's scored 9 in 32 for Burnley, and if you consider 3 of those goals were a hat trick against that dreadful Sunderland team, it devalues it slightly. He only scored in 6 games, so played 26 matches without scoring. For us he's scored 5 goals in 31 appearances last season, as so far this season has scored 3 in 15. So that's a total of 17 goals in 3 seasons and 78 appearances. It looks on the surface he's a 1 in 5 striker, but to be fair to him we should add up the minutes rather than appearances. If we add up all the minutes, for Burnley he played 2267 minutes, so that's 1 goal every 2.8 games. For Watford he's played 2215 minutes scoring 8 goals, which is a goal every 3.07 games. Add it all together that's an average 1 goal every 2.9 matches. So he's a 1 in 3 striker, maybe 12 goals a season if he played every minute of every game. But with injuries and loss of form, he's only likely to play in around 30 matches per season, and those stats have been backed up with reality, which would make it around 8/10 goals per season, which are what his stats reveal. We need better than that, if we are serious about becoming a top half of the table side.
I get what you're saying and I agree that we have a much improved squad. I also think that fans are entitled to voice their disappointment at the end of a game or half to let the players know how they feel, though I would never do that. However, the players play better when we are loud and supportive and that's why I gave a comparison to loud fans; not because I want the team to emulate Cardiff's and Huddersfield's relegation battle.
I don't think they have better squads than ourselves. A matter of opinion, of course, but regardless of the results we were the stronger team at Leicester, Wolves, Spam and Everton, and Muff are now really struggling with their injuries. The performances so far, don't back that up.
Yes but he has only started around 8 games this season, and coming on as impact sub isn't what he is good at. Likewise last season he only started around 15 league games. So unless you have a super sub on your hands those stats aren't of much use. He will always be at this best starting games and getting a good run of games so that he get back some confidence.
Gray’s problem is his price tag really. I can see he has good movement. I can see he is alive in the box in a way Deeney and Success are not. But then he misses a sitter or does an air shot or does a terrible bit of control and everyone including me slates him. Kind of weird to think that he only cost a few more million than success but he gets a lot of slack (comparatively).
We've got a better squad than Wolves and Bournemouth and a slightly worse one than Leicester imo. The other two have just spent crazy money so are overrated as a result.
All of those have stronger squads than us. We have as good or better midfield (esp if Chalo gets back to where he was) but all have better strikers and defence than us.
I would say we've got the best midfield selection outside of the top 6. We have the best two wide players outside of the top 6 also. We are adequate in all other areas apart from strikers, which is the area that lets us down. We are a top half Premier League team with a Championship strike force.
Bournemouth have far superior defence and forward line options to us. Keeper is a scratch. We win the midfield. In my view. Everton and West Ham are miles ahead man for man. Wolves is debatable. In terms of back up centre backs we have the worst in the division. Strike force is bottom 3. Our midfield saves our skin.
Sad to read your comments about the Cup. Even sadder, though, is the fact that, although I don’t want to believe it, I think you’re probably right, because of the modern mindset of owners and coaches. In truth this is the best time for a mid-table PL side to try and win a Cup because the big boys really don’t take it seriously until the very latter stages. I’d certainly swap 9th place for 15th and a Cup win but I don’t think the Pozzos would.
I think David Brooks is proving to be better than Will Hughes so far this season. I think Ryan Fraser has been more effective than Gerard Deulofeu this season. I would argue Pascal Groß gets on our bench. I think we can all agree that despite being highly annoying, Wilf Zaha would be the first name on the team sheet at Watford FC. If we played with three I would Luka Milivojevi* on par with Capoue. Richarlison & Gylfi Sigurdsson would both improve our 11. Idrissa Gueye & Andre Gomes debatable. I'd also have James Maddison over Will Hughes Hughes and on his day depending on the game I'd have Marc Albrighton in the team too. I would also put Wilf Ndidi on par with Doucouré. Felipe Anderson & Declan Rice start for us. Yarmolenko was sparkling before injury, yet to see if he's better than Deulofeu. Neves & Moutinho I haven't watched much of to know but they wouldn't be far off! In fact, if you did an "outside of the top 6" combined 11 we'd probably have Pereyra and Doucoure in there. Based on WhoScored the XI would actually be. Fabianski, Lucas Digne, Matt Doherty, Harry Maguire, Sol Bamba, Wilf Ndidi, Etienne Capoue, Felipe Anderson, James Maddison, Gylfi Sigurdsson & A Mitrovic. Ricardo Pereria, Aaron Wan Bissaka, Jose Holebas, Willy Boly, Shane Duffy, Phillip Billing, Michael Keane, Raul Jiminez, Luka Milivojevic and so many more also have a higher average rating. Pereyra is down in #125. Stats don't mean everything of course and I know I've gone way too far making my point but an average (at the moment) Will Hughes, played three Prem games Quina and not played regularly in a year pair Chalobah & Cleverley does not give us the best midfield selection in the Prem.
I think it’s less of a priority for clubs because The Europa League is a devalued competition and that’s the prize for winning it. Swap the prize for one of the CL spots and it would be more competitive - the big boys may not take it too seriously until the latter stages, but the winners of both cups over the last 10 years tells you they don’t need to as invariably one of them ends up winning it anyway. There’s not enough incentive for owners or managers to risk their league status for a cup run, even if we as fans would be desperate to win one. It’s not the open competeuon it once was.
