Watford FC 0-3 Burnley - 23/11/2019

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The players we have on our books, from the regular first team players, that would attract clubs from a top league would be:-
    Doucoure, Pereyra, Deulofeu, Capoue and Welbeck.

    Sure, some of the others could go to lower half Prem sides as back up options, like Cathcart, Kabs, Deeney possibly. I could also make a case for Hughes and Chalobah, but I only really see them as good Championship players these days.

    The rest, because of their salaries etc, would find it very tough to better what they are already on at Watford anywhere else. That's why the likes of Janmaat etc would love to stay, not because they love it here, but because it's the best deal they'd ever get.

    If you take away those few star players, you're left with Foster, Gomes, Bachmann, Masina, Holebas, Kiko, Janmaat, Cathcart, Mapps, Kabs, Prodl, Chalobah, Hughes, Gray, Deeney, Success, Dawson, Zeegelaar, Foulquier, & Cleverley. That has a stamp of Championship written all over it.

    Sure, we do have some promising young players who I have not included, and these could be stars in the Championship. Dahlberg, Quina, Sarr, Pedro, Cucho, Deli-Bashiru, Wilmot and Cassidy. Also, there are loads of other young players we have on our books that are all loaned out. Maybe one or two of those could be used, work permits permitting of course. They would all do very well in the Championship.

    I think it's obvious we'd have to sell Bobby, Geri and Doucs, but if we retained the rest including Capoue and Welbeck I think we'd have a very good chance of coming back up.
     
  2. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Mariappa regularly gets out jumped by shorter players.
    Very good analysis by Reids. Makes you wonder who do Watford actually employ to scout teams. We must have Stevie Wonder as our scout.
     
    Teide1 likes this.
  3. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    No way will any Premier league club buy Danny Welbeck, no chance at all.
    Chalobah is finished. He would be a passenger in the Championship.
    Mariappa is a risk in the Championship. League 1/2 is his level.
    Dahlberg will leave the club. He had to go if he is to have a chance of making it. He will not get it at Watford.
    AD could go to another Premier league club. RP and GD will go to clubs overseas .
    Will Watford go with their very old, tired squad or take a chance on the younger players when we are in the Championship next season?
    We will need a decent Manager in order to go with the younger players.
    A clear out is needed no matter what happens.
    The Pozzo model failed at Granada, in the end. The new owners have taken a completely different route and look at the results. They gave the new Manager time, gave younger players a chance and created a unity within the team and community.
    Watford are not even spoken about that much on Talksport or BBC sport. We considered relegation fodder, a bit of a joke. Why waste time on us?
    Change must happen on the field and off the field. I don't just mean the Manager but the position of those who have a say in the running of the club.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  4. cpm82

    cpm82 Academy Graduate

    im over 6 foot and Hughes is nowhere near that up close.
     
  5. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    How on earth do we know? He scored in the first game and then left. He wasn't cut out for The Championship but actually The Premier League may have suited him better
     
  6. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Picture please
     
  7. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    I bet you're 5'11 and a half really
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  8. reids

    reids First Team

    He's listed as that height on: The PL website, the Watford website, Wikipedia, WyScout and Football Manager so I'd imagine that he really is that height up close.
     
  9. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    He’s magic...you know.
     
  10. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    This is not to defend his inclusion or what he offers, particularly, but Mariappa describes himself as '5'10'' on a good day' and yet he also regularly out-jumps players much taller than him thanks to a combination of spring and timing; it's probably his most impressive individual asset. He shouldn't be playing for us on ability, let alone starting, but we must give him the credit where it is sparingly due!

    On that, and this thread's current note, how many teams, Prem or otherwise, have not known who their centre back pairing are, really at any time, for the last three or four years? Pretty much every team we are competing with and seek to emulate or better are based around a solid and defined centre back pairing; Burnley are the ultimate example, but teams like Brighton or Bournemouth provide similar examples.

    Obviously, it's the opposite of revolutionary to talk about centre back improvement, but it's just ridiculous to survey the scene and look at how unsure all of our options are, and how one pairing has never nailed itself down in a way that would foster the understanding required to form the base of the spine of a team. No wonder we're so ******* panicked all the time; it starts from square one at, right at the back. It's shameful, really.
     
  11. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Injuries?
     
  12. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    Care to elaborate?
     
  13. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Well that would currently appear to be the problem including half way through Saturday. I can't give 'chapter and verse' here but my perception is that we've regularly changed our CB pairing (mostly just two) over the last few seasons by necessity rather than choice.
     
  14. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I can't deny that centre backs have had injuries, but suspension thanks to ill-discipline and general bad form have contributed each at least as much.

    I don't think that detracts from my point at all, which is that we don't have a recognised centre back pairing, mostly because none of our centre backs are good enough, and no two have ever displayed the kind of understanding/relationship required to form a first choice partnership. Returning from those injuries has never been a case of 'ah, we have our first choice two back now'; to this day, there is debate over who that would be, Kabasele refuses to become anything like the player he theoretically could and the general answer when that is debated is that it doesn't matter greatly because any combination of them is extremely weak.

    Injury wasn't our problem at the start of this campaign, when we were choosing from all of our centre backs, and yet were shockingly dreadful defensively and moved players around often to once again try and work out the 'best' configuration. Added to that, other teams usually have a recognised pairing, see one injured and then bring in a recognised understudy, rather than the ludicrous musical chairs we've been playing since about halfway through Quique's first season.

    Fundamentally, whatever the cause is, we don't have what the majority of other teams do, and we suffer for it.
     
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  15. HornetMan

    HornetMan Academy Graduate

    We haven't really had an impressive centre back partnership since Carlisle and Mackay in the Boothroyd promotion season imo (DeMerit and Shittu was colossal yes but we got relegated the season they played together). Cathcart has lost the plot, Kabasele is the best we have by far but is too erratic and makes schoolboy errors and Prodl is a walking wheelchair at this point

    Why we got rid of Britos I don't know
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  16. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Because he didn't get on with Gracia so it seems.

    Regarding Hughes there was a thread on the Burnley forum saying they'd like him but not exactly sure where he would fit in their team !

    I remember Mariappa (he seems to be the only defender who doesn't get injured or suspended...) and Cathcart struggled against Wood and Barnes last season ...

    Same happened again .

    If only we had a fitter younger Prodl.

    Even Kabasele's 27.
     
  17. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    How do we expect to score goals? Beside focusing on the players we have out there, what’s our actual plan for scoring goals? Do we have a clear plan for creating chances?

    I’ve been thinking about it, and I genuinely don’t know what we’re trying to be in an attacking sense.

    We don’t launch crosses into the box. We don’t get in behind and cut back for onrushing attacker’s. We don’t play through balls, or work the channels. Basically, our entire attacking plan seems to be based on hoping something happens when either Geri or Doucoure attack with the ball from deep.

    I’m certain this is exactly how QSF wants it. We have no hope with him at the helm. It’s desperate.
     
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  18. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    28, turning 29 in three months actually!
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Ripe for the genius Pozzo to give him a 4 year Cathcart/Prodl extension.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  20. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    He is actually in contract talks isn't he? It'll be a 5 year deal probably. See him nicely into retirement.
     
  21. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    The way Mariappa is talked about on here is frankly ridiculous. League 1 or 2 level? Granted our other options aren't great but he's been our best centre back over the last two seasons. Cathcart and Kabasele are far more prone to glaring errors. Most of the time that Mariappa messes up, it's because he's been bullied by a far larger centre forward or his crap distribution has let him down. At least he concentrates on defending and doesn't have the regular brain farts of the other two.

    You will struggle to see a worse piece of defending all season than Cathcart when Rodriguez hit the bar, he turned around and ran for about fifteen yards without once looking where the ball was. He gets a very easy pass from our fans, when he is in fact regularly worse than Mariappa.

    Should Mariappa be our starting centre back? No, of course not. But he's nowhere near as bad as people make out, he's not even our worst centre back. Incidentally, after all the abuse Dawson was getting earlier in the season, he's been head and shoulders above anyone since we switched to a back five.
     
  22. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Ok.
    Prodl has always been injury prone. His track record in Germany was very poor.
    Kabasele has talent, but lacks concentration at this level.
    Dawson has played well in the back 5, but is on the way down in his career.
    Mariappa tries hard and is a nice guy. No good in the air and distribution is piss poor. He loves the club though.
    Cathcart has been shot for a couple of seasons now. Looks s**t scared when the ball comes near him. Beating his head with his own fists at Bournemouth remains a worrying image.
    Holebas, please leave asap.
    Kiko looks good going forward, but hopeless as a defender.
    Janmaart is ok. At least he looks interested when he plays.
    Perhaps Kabasele would do well if we had a quality CH to play along side him. Some hope of that happening.
    Who plays on goal once we are in the Championship? Which Keeper stays and who goes?
     
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Foster probably or Gomes !!

    I feel the other 2 might go .

    Cathcart and Dawson with Willmott might be the central 2/3.

    With 2 new full backs ..
     
  24. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Yeah ok
     
  25. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Thought we played well until the first goal, as ever we didn't have someone to finish off the game. The Deeney and Sarr subs ruined the balance of the team, then again if he didn't bring them on we'd all be moaning about that too. All looking rather bleak now, still think we'll survive comfortably though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  26. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Yes Bwood_Horn,you're correct.
    I shall deconstruct Harpo,Groucho,Chico,Zeppo and Bernard almost immediately.
    I shall instead use the ancient art of alchemy to cure our ills.
    Wait there...
     
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