Watford FC 0-3 Brighton & Hove Albion - 10/08/2019

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Steve Leo Beleck, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    He'll do well.
     
  2. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse First Team Captain

    After the abject end to last season and absolute catastrophe that was the cup final, I think we really, really need a confidence boosting win.

    We’ve had a good pre season but I don’t know how much stock you can really put into essentially a few glorified kickabouts.

    I think if we score first, we win. If Brighton notch first I can see them shutting the game out and us huffing and puffing, getting more and more frustrated and playing pretty little triangles without endangering them whatsoever.
     
  3. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Flat and uninterested can be used to sum up every aspect of the club from the owner down since the final whistle in the Cup Semi Final.
     
    NorwegianOrn, hornetgags and Burnsy like this.
  4. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    A lot thinner I reckon.
     
  5. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    You're being way too optimistic there.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  6. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    I only said they may tumble out of the Championship
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  7. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    I feel like last summer was probably worse in terms of constant negativity. There were loads of people who were convinced that Javi was clueless, the squad was the weakest in years, not enough signings, the likes of Fulham were much stronger etc etc.

    Once Saturday rolls around, and we comfortably dispatch of Brighton, you’ll feel much better.
     
  8. With A Smile

    With A Smile First Team

    Gracia's gone from being the coach to being their jolly old mate

    We'll run out of gas after about 20 minutes and get stuffed 0-4
     
  9. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Okay some divergent thinking going on here.

    For those who think we always do a good start and then it falls apart. THIS ISNT GOING TO HAPPEN THIS SEASON. We will start badly and then get worse, we have not got the players for a scrap. We were **** at the end of last season, players are older, we don’t have new players, we have the same problems as last season - a poor defence and we lack quality up front. Disinterested flare midfielders who don’t show up and an aging Deeney aren’t going to score many. We will concede loads. Gray will be our top scorer, he ain’t great but he does at leat score a few, not enough though.
    If you think we are starting well and falling off you are wrong. We are starting badly. Hoping we don’t collapse either through injury or suspension or complete lack of confidence and then staying near the bottom. Talk about rose tinted specs.

    The badge refresh is like Brexit? What the actual
    ****? Our badge is garish and bad. The worst colours imaginable in clashing chunks with a ******** moose. If we want international appeal, money, investment it needs to change.
    We need that to compete or we are going the way of Ipswich and bigger teams like Bolton and Sunderland.

    We need to bed in and entrench for the hardest season we have had in the prem or under tho pozzos.

    Come back to me when we have a maximum of 2 points from our first 6 and you’ve realised the reality of 2019/20. We won’t “dispatch” Brighton they will out score and out play us.

    There is going to be some hard braking and reality checks to this over confidence.

    I know I sound pessimistic and I’m very happy to be proved wrong. But I see it as realism. We havent invested. We haven’t solved our very obvious long term problems and those around us have.

    Ask yourself this though where are our goals coming from? How have we solved the defensive frailities of last season. If we play city what will the score be?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
    NorwegianOrn and LaClusazSki like this.
  10. vic-rijrode

    vic-rijrode First Year Pro

    Woe, woe and thrice woe!

    [​IMG]

    We're doomed, doomed I tell ye....

    [​IMG]
     
    Cthulhu likes this.
  11. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Infamy infamy! They’ve all got it in for me
     
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  12. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki Reservist

    Moaning? No, some fans just feel our season could be as bland as the new away strip
    Defeat on Saturday would be a blow to our hopes of survival, but not unexpected.
    We are the same team, nothing new. The club can't keep hoping that there will be three sides worse than us. If you stand still for too long, it will eventually catch up with you.
     
  13. It's the same side as last season, with a CB upgrade over Mariappa, and Del starting off knowing how to score instead of fluffing chances for 3 months.

    We'll be fine. Won't finish top half, but we're not going down either. Mid table blancmange then.

    Del will be top scorer with 15, Gray perhaps 10, TD 2 and some pens.

    Highlight of the season will be Joao Pedro turning up shivering in the British winter.
     
  14. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    What is all this stuff? Seeing as it's well known and documented that decisions have traditionally favoured the bigger teams (not necessarily because of refs' bias but because they succumb to the pressure of the big team and their crowd - as we probably would as individuals too), any increase in objectivity (which VAR will undoubtedly bring) should be welcomed by the likes of us. VAR will favour the smaller teams as compared to what's gone on before.

    I'd like to hear of any evidence whatsoever that VAR has, where it's been introduced so far, favoured the 'big teams'.

    As for Wilson falling over because Cathcart farted in his general vicinity then he'll get caught out diving and hopefully booked. So if Muff are indeed 'serial cheaters' then they'll suffer too.

    As WWTW has pointed out, the ref. is alerted by the VAR team when they perceive something to be wrong (not the other way around) and are able to make that objective decision in their studio away from pitchside 'pressure' and any pressure from pundits too.

    I think VAR will be brilliant (and for us in particular - unless you need to catch a bus). Finally the inertia is over. Bring it on! If it had been available at Swansea v Mooners last season then we would probably have won the cup.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  15. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Don't want to piss on your chips but there are reports that Pedro isn't coming till next summer...
     
  16. Damn. Could have sworn I had you on ignore. Must fix that.
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  17. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Of the most expensive transfer purchases Watford and Brighton have completed, 5 out of the top 6 are by Brighton, with only Andre Gray from our side. This is despite them coming up two seasons after us and hardly being renowned as a money bags team.

    A stark example of how we can't compete financially in this league and have to look for bargains and try to be smarter. It's amazing we've done so well for so long but sooner or later our luck will run out.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  18. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Why shouldn't we be able to "compete financially in this league" with the likes of B&HA? If we don't then that's surely down to Gino's choice to be prudent and to do his business in a different way.

    Cracking o.p. b.t.w.
     
  19. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I admire your optimism and belief in the good of humanity. I hope you are right
     
  20. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Ha! But I don't have to rely on that. The VAR system is specifically designed to remove (as far as is possible) the vagaries of human decision making. Should there be any sniff of big team/home team bias then it would be simply embarrassing.

    I'm not saying there'll be any 'small team' bias either of course. Simply that we'll now have a level playing field.
     
  21. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    I'm being deliberatly condescending here;

    How sweet your naivety is. Bless.
     
    CleyHorn likes this.
  22. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Chucking money at it? No thanks. There's no way BHA have the ability to scout Richarlison, Hernandez, Peneranda or Pedro, nor do they have links or connections to sign players like Pereyra or Deulofeu from Barca and Juve. Why would you spend 20m on a championship player when you can get Hughes for 6m?
     
    Knight GT, CleyHorn and UEA_Hornet like this.
  23. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep. Tony Bloom worth a billion plus an extra 10k per week on the gate. The reality is we cannot compete financially even with Brighton (who we seem to be looking on as a home banker!)
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  24. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Because their owner has 10 times Pozzo wealth and they get 30k a week at the Amex?
     
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Given Tony Bloom’s background Brighton have a strong emphasis on data analysis when it comes to their scouting network. Not sure why you are turning your nose up at their approach. It may be different from ours but that doesn’t mean it is wrong.
     
  26. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    VAR will almost certainly see the end of those games where we see wild inconsistency from the referee depending on which end of the pitch an incident happens at. Within the same game it should be really effective, especially as the PL seems to be deliberately marginalising the use of the pitchside tv monitor. The VAR should help to ensure a consistent standard is applied in the same 90 minutes.

    What I can't see it helping with are the bigger inconsistencies - I still think it's highly likely that over the same weekend, and definitely over the whole season, we will see wild inconsistency between what constitutes a penalty when (say) Mo Salah's sock is brushed compared to when Deeney or any other forward from lower profile club is involved in a similar scenario.

    As you rightly say, a factor here is the ref giving the on-field decision first before the VAR checks it. Inevitably the same teams and players that earn more decisions now, will still get them from refs with VAR watching. So Salah gets his dubious pen awarded in real time. I guarantee the VAR will find an angle showing the atoms on Salah's sock quivered miliseconds before he fell and everyone is happy. Meanwhile Deeney gets no penalty from the ref on the field, the VAR will umm and ahh for 10 seconds and decide he left his leg trailing, or played for it, or there just wasn't enough contact.

    I don't think it's going to be the great leveller you hope.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  27. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Good to see you capable of entering into rational debate.
     
  28. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    My god the depression on this forum is really , well quite depressing . I think some of you actually enjoy wallowing in self pity.

    You seem to be just sending each other into a vicious cycle of negativity , apathy and despondency.

    I’m off to top myself now .
     
  29. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Either:
    1. Top trolling by Forum ‘Staff Member’
    or
    2. Scary negative realism from an ITK forum staff member.

    We’ll be fine.

    2-1 win coming up to kick start the season.
     
    Cthulhu likes this.
  30. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Brighton are a bigger club than us, it's as simple as that.
     
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  31. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    I don't see much of this. How will it necessarily be really effective within the same game but not effective across the bigger piece? You have postulated that Salah is more likely than Deeney to win a penalty under similar circumstances. So what if it's Liverpool v Waford then? The same game. You can't have it both ways.

    What I would accept is that the ref. might still be more likely to give that pen. to Salah in the first instance at Anfield. The usual pressures would apply. And then (and I understand the VAR team will be looking at all pen. decisions and potential pen. decisions not given) then the onus will be on VAR to show the ref. to have clearly got it wrong in the first place. Like l.b.w. reviews in cricket then. Too close to call? ref's original decision stands. And there will be plenty of those so maybe the big teams might continue to enjoy an advantage there.

    But you go further and suggest that there is some sort of 'institutional bias' that will extend into the VAR studio. I don't believe that will exist (or has ever existed for that matter). It's just been undue pressure on refs that they've been unable to resist.

    This sidetrack has only discussed pens. Offside decisions will be a totally level playing field.

    Apologies for this diversion on a match thread. I'm sure it's all been discussed before on a VAR specific one. But, seeing as Saturday will be the first match of a full season when we'll all be subjected to it, it seems a reasonable diversion to me.
     
  32. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    You can’t. £6m 2 years ago is close to £20m this season. Anyone with any form or track record in the champ is going for £15m-£25m.
     
  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Just because a club spends money, that doesn’t mean they are ‘chucking money at it’.

    They have stayed up in the PL in their first 2 seasons in much the same manner as we did. They’ve gone and bought a much-coveted defender in Webster to strengthen an already good CB unit. They realised they were poor upfront last season so have remedied it by signing Maupay who had a decent pedigree in Ligue 1 before scoring 41 goals in 2 seasons at Brentford and is the current EFL player of the season. They’ve signed good youngsters like Percy Tau and Alexis MacAllister much like we have JP and Cucho. They have a brand new stadium and state-of-the-art training ground. They also have not abandoned their own academy.

    I really don’t think we are in a position to be looking down our noses at Brighton.
     
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  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'm not. My point is, over the whole season, a Mo Salah will be awarded more of that type of penalty than a Troy Deeney. I'm talking about a trend I think will be apparant over 760 games. There will always be individual exceptions.

    It's more of a unconscious bias, than an institutional bias. I don't believe any of them go to work to get things wrong. But the fact is, balls up a decision involving Watford or Burnley or Sheffield Utd and it'll be forgotten by Sunday lunchtime. Do the same for Man City/Liverpool/United and it'll still be rumbling on a month later.

    When VAR was a concept rather than something we've now all seen working in practice, I was in the camp who thought it was unimpeachable and could be a real game changer. Having seen it in games since the World Cup - and having been gobsmacked by the way some officials can look at something on a tv screen and interpret it in a particular (and sometimes perverse) way, usually to fit their original call - I've lost most of that faith. The one remaining hope seems to be the PL will do it differently and better. I'm not exactly holding out for that, when the likes of Jon Moss are still in the decision-making loop.

    I guarantee at some point this season we'll see a toenail offside given one way and the another toenail offside given the other. There will still be inconsistency. Whether that favours the bigger teams I have more doubts than with penalties.

    Anyway, it's basically a wait and see debate. Will be interesting to look back on these points in 6-12 months.
     
  35. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I broadly agree with your views on VAR here although, as a football fan who goes to live matches rather than watching on TV, I hate the idea of it. The interesting point you've brought up is the one about whether the on-field ref's decision will be allowed to stand following a debatable review. It seems we will be applying VAR slightly differently in this country but I wonder if this will extend to these situations. My belief is that the pressure under the VAR system will be to give penalties whenever there has been contact to supposedly 'level the playing field' as well as expose diving. If a ref doesn't give a penalty when the VAR replay shows there has been some contact I think there will be an outcry which will lead to that option quickly dying out.
     
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