Watford FC 0-0 Crystal Palace - 21/04/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Burnsy, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    You’ve put it far better than I’ve been able to. These are my sentiments also.

    It’s a vicious circle.

    On one hand we can’t be seen to moan, in case we are seen as entitled by Gino and he sells up. But on the other hand, by sacking managers every season since we’ve been in the PL, is Gino guilty of the entitlement the fans on here are supposedly showing.

    I guess it’s his toy and he can behave as he wishes. But we are fans and subsidise his toy so have a right to highlight both concerns and praise alike.
     
  2. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I wouldn't want to stop football fans moaning about their team - I've spent the majority of the many years I've spent following Watford doing just that! I just don't think that there's much wrong with Watford FC at the moment to justify the levels of negativity expressed on here. I accept that, given the sense of over-optimism generated by our opening few games, this season has been something of an anti-climax. But come on, we're not following Leeds, Ipswich, West Brom, West Ham, Sunderland, etc etc etc etc!
     
  3. It's a question of timescale for the Pozzos though, isn't it? They are in it hopefully for the long run. Read the'meet the Pozzos' chapter in Tales from the Vicarage Vol II. The family bought Udinese in 1986. 'Before Udinese could become the jewel in the family crown, there would be years of painful transition, mistakes and miniature revolutions'.
    'Only in 1995-96, ten years after his arrival, did the Pozzo model start to truly take shape and bear fruit, with the return to Serie A and the transformation of a yo-yo club into a team frequently fighting for a place in Europe, the party-poopers that the giants of Serie A would come to respect and fear.'

    I would say that in six seasons, from perennial championship strugglers to comfortably staying in the PL for a fourth season, we are probably doing quite acceptably for the Pozzos.

    If we had been making better progress and incrementally every year then we would have to be looking at Champions League in a couple of years. Not going to happen, will probably never happen, and I would imagine the Pozzos targets are a little more realistic.
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I agree with every part of that.
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  5. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Indeed so GOBE, but equally the constant replacing of Head Coaches and the comments made by Duxbury last summer might also indicate that they want improvement season by season too?

    Again I qualify my thoughts with a disclaimer that they are only my assumptions.

    Survival remains the most crucial aim at the start of every season. This year it looks as if all three newly promoted clubs will stay up while three well-established PL clubs will drop. So again I believe we will have done well if/when we are safe.

    Having got ourselves towards safety with several games to go over the past few seasons though (even this year we reached 36 points with 7 matches left), I think most of us would naturally have wanted a better end to the season and a best-to-date points tally and finishing position.
     
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  6. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If the options were to go forward with Gracia, as he kept us up and deserves a chance....or to take the risk on a manager in the mould of Silva (Fonseca at Shakhtar or similar)....

    I’m genuinely interested to know what people would rather. I think there’s an equal amount of risk in either. But one of them would take us further than where we are now IMO.
     
  7. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    You mention Fonseca at Shakhtar, but can you even imagine what they're paying him? Gino will never fork out big money to bring a coach in.

    I think we're stuck with middling coaches for the foreseeable future. Mazzarri and Silva both left with their reputations damaged, so I can't imagine there is a long line of people queuing up to take the job.
     
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Contract up this summer, stalled on new deal and been vocal about wanting to manage in the PL.

    I agree that managers like this ‘may’ be unattainable whilst our model is how it is. I’m hoping there’s an evaluation this summer (which encapsulates the last 2 season’s whilst also realising Udinese aren’t pulling up trees anymore) and Gino and his dad realising it’s an outdated model that needs tweaking to bring further success. If they are happy to stand still and have survival as the goal, so be it.
     
  9. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    I think Gino has shown he's willing to change things. We have spent far more than I ever thought we would, and his resolve to keep Deeney when I was sure he'd sell was impressive.

    Give the head coach more control though.... Can't see that happening. I feel he'll need another season at least to figure out that the head coach needs more of a say.
     
  10. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    Nobody is losing perspective. We have better players than ever before but continually conceding **** goals pisses people off but dont tell me that our squad is worse than Burnleys or even evertons ageing one. A bit of organisation and a bit of steel and we could have finished 7th.

    It is frustration rather than loss of perspective
     
    Luther Bassett likes this.
  11. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Head. Nail. On. Hit. The. The.

    It shouldn’t take another year for Gino to see what’s obvious. And fans who point that out shouldn’t be claimed to be ungrateful etc.
     
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  12. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    Come off it. We're all a bit salty about Burnley doing well, but 6/7 of their players would walk into our side. Same goes for Everton
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  13. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    So we are ahead of the curve in terms of what Pozzo did at Udinese.

    We are a lower mid prem team already.

    Mistakes will be made that’s fine I think now. Let’s show some class and decorum.

    I am as guilty as any of histrionics and hissy fits. Although half of what I say is tongue in cheek ( or so I’ll claim)

    With that in mind and my mindset altered. I’ll cheer for a win rather than look to get angry. I love beating palace. If we do - great! If we don’t - it ain’t so bad
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Zaha to play some major role ofcourse - iterally maybe !!

    Cannot see us scoring enough or keeping it tight at the back .
     
  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Can I be the first to welcome you in to the 'Happy Clappers' camp! I am sure you will be very happy and clappy here. Great to have you on board
     
  16. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I wonder how many fans of EPL clubs are actually pleased with their team's performance this season? Other than the three promoted clubs (bless them), Liverpool and Burnley, everyone else could be said to have underperformed. Even Man City fans must have a sense of disappointment after f***ing up in the Champ League and at home v Utd
     
    Malteser likes this.
  17. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    I'm afraid your post is exactly what I'm frustrated about. Our squad is nowhere near a 7th place finish. Our problems is not that our squad is mentally weak and disorganised. It's because our squad is not good enough. Our best team could certainly be 10th to 7th, but not our squad.
     
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  18. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    Yep. That's the level to aim at. It felt like we were on that course. Shows what might have been to be so disappointed to be 13th and inevitably end up 17th.
     
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If everyone is playing to 80%-100% of their ability, please name the 7 Burnley players that get in our team...
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Go back over that. Burnley have been lucky with injuries. They’ve played a similar team every week.

    Your post is the exactly the type I’m frustrated about. Our squad can be very close to a 7th place finish.
     
  21. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    Heaton, Tarkowski, Mee, Ward, Cork, Lowton, Wood. Pope, Vokes and Barnes also...
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
    Sahorn likes this.
  22. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    I'm not sure you read my post properly. I believe that out 1st team could compete with almost anyone in the league. However if any of them are injured the replacements are nowhere near up to the required standard.
     
  23. kenbolka

    kenbolka Academy Graduate

    For me, the main source of the frustration is seeing a group of players, who at the start of the season seemed a far more cohesive unit and played some effective entertaining football and maintained a healthy relationship with the fans, regress so far that there are glimmers of that but some seriously disjointed, uninterested looking players. Had we been like this all season maybe there would be less moaning because we would be used to it.
     
  24. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    Our midfield could potentially be top 6, our first choice attack and defence are rubbish
     
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  25. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Isn't part of the Pozzo trick to find the excellent coach or player who is on the way up but not yet fully recognised as being as good as they are? Quite a lot fall by the wayside, but every now and then one comes up trumps. Bringing in already-internationally-recognised people is very expensive and still doesn't doesn't always pay off. (See Everton, for example). Perhaps more than their business-judgement they are backing their football-judgement.
     
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  26. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  27. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Actually we reached 36 points with 9 games left. I’m not sure if that’s better or more frustrating.
     
  28. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Not going to sugar coat this one.

    Will be tough, palace are getting very hard to beat and Zaha has been beating Watford on Fifa all week so he knows when the statues will stand still and when we switch off.

    Lots of credit to Woy for getting them out of the trouble they had at the start of the season, but we need the points as much as they do.

    Until we are mathematically safe we are in danger of the drop and I don’t care what the odds are for that.

    Saying all this, I’m going for a draw here. Would love to win but it’s going to be about stopping our losing run and I hope to god Hracia has used the week to drill defensive organisations into our leauge one back three.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  29. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I thought Everton wanted him? Why don’t we let them take him, keep Gracia, sack him after 10 games and then relentlessly pursue Everton to get their boss after which we appoint Big Sam!
     
    wingco likes this.
  30. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    Deulofeu, Prodl and two others who are unnamed have fallen ill. Don't really care about Prodl because it gives Kabasele a chance tomorrow. However, it would be have been nice to have Gerard for the Palace game because it's one of two of the final few games which we can actually win.

    Has there been any update on Hughes's limp from the last match?
     
  31. HeurelhoGomesBaby

    HeurelhoGomesBaby Academy Graduate

    Well I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. At last people have actually talked about the football instead of their favourite Tom Hanks movie or best holiday destination outside Europe. Is this a sign that there’s a hunger to win this one? I hope so because the last couple of months has been uninspiring on almost every level.

    I don’t think Gracia has the cojones to drop our mouthy, out of sorts captain. I’d like to think Deeney would be up for this fixture but sadly he’s lost all appetite for football. It’s a shame because he used to be quite good. He plays ok about 1 in 5, though, so is due one of his better games this week. (This could mean anything from scything down Zaha outside the box and getting away with it to giving his shirt to a fan in a wheelchair after the match). There’s a faint chance he’ll score a goal.

    As for other team selections, I think that Will Hughes is a rum fellow. Hope he plays a full match and scores a winner in the 93rd minute. And the only other thing to say is that our best goalkeeper - you know who I mean - should be restored for this.

    Head says 1-2. Heart says: I’m looking forward to seeing my mate Richie before the game and having a pint of IPA in the sunshine.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  32. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I think the difference between our model and the rest of the league is a little overstated. The "coach" picks the team and formation and style of play. He articulates what positions he needs to be upgraded and is part of the decision making on saying yay or nay when targets are identified. Theoretically this is a European model so European coaches should be more attracted to us than our peers. The only issue I see is what we will pay as a package and our trigger happy track record.
     
  33. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Best quote of the thread.

    Lost his appetite for football but not the greasy spoon pre match meal. :p
     
  34. HeurelhoGomesBaby

    HeurelhoGomesBaby Academy Graduate

    Yes. I fed you that one.
     
  35. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Squad Player

    No wonder he's so lethargic if he's even eating the spoons now
     

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