Watford 2-1 Tottenham - 05/09/2020 (fr)

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by StrikerLB, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Cheers Lh8a :cool:
     
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  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    This.
     
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  3. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Rayon, but by Brentford Nylons. You'll probably never see his Wincyette pyjamas with the Roy Rogers motif.
     
  4. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Yes, it was a good shot and shows the value of having a go - it's the whole thing about making your own luck. But Hart should not be proud about it; possibly he was unsighted by his own man, but to think he was England first choice not all that many years ago....
     
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  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The other thing I’d say from today - I’d like to see more of Dan Phillips. Very very early days but seems a talented boy with more than enough strength already to hold his own.
     
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  6. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I have no intention of seeing his pyjamas,even if they have Socrates and Plato reenacting the parrot shop sketch on them!
     
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree with a lot of this. The midfield is nice with the quick triangle passing. But that pretty much depends on whether Quina plays. If he's out, then I suspect it will be a bit more of a struggle to play this way. Give youth a chance by all means, as it brings a lot of energy and dynamism, but you need players who can grind it out in the Championship. We need old pros dotted about in the team.

    If Capoue & Welbeck are still around next Friday, we've got to use them. Why wouldn't we? We need to tap into our quality while they are still here. It's a bit of a dream to think we can go up without many of the quality players we are not actually using.

    If we can get a few cheap early wins at the beginning of the season it sets us up nicely. It's important to get off to a good start.
     
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  8. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I don't think it was so much reckless as just plain, deliberately nasty. Which is a reasonable summary of Alli, I think.
     
  9. Mitchyman7398

    Mitchyman7398 Academy Graduate

    Thought their were plenty positives to take from that obviously. A clear style of football has been implemented on and off the ball. We looked comfortable, sharp, quick on the ball, and then solid, disciplined and committed off it, really encouraging. You'd like to think maybe one or two will come into that line up well everyone is available but everyone who had considerable minutes played well.

    Thought Bachmann made a few sharp saves, not totally convinced he is comfortable with the ball at his feet, noticed he would rarely take a touch when the ball was played back to him, but to his credit, while he hit them first time, I can't recall to many wayward ones.

    Thought Dawson was largely anonymous in the game, which for a central defender probably isn't the worst thing, but his lack of pace is really noticeable, surprised Kaba doesn't play on the outside of the 3, but then again he looked rather uncomfortable with the ball at his feet on a number of occasions so protecting him in the middle makes sense. Was impressed with Wilmot, looked really comfortable on the ball and made a cracking slide tackle in our box , felt his distribution could be a little off at times. As many others were I was massively impressed with Ngakia, solid defensively and a real threat going forward, the ball through to Quina in the second half was inch perfect. As for Estupinan, was personally excited to see him in the line up, pretty solid defensively, was okay going forward, seemed reluctant to hit the crosses he seemed to do so often last season in La Liga.

    Midfield was really impressive today. Cleverley felt at least like he was absolutely everywhere. Had a few worries that his injuries of late has maybe hampered his ability to get around so effectively like he did before, but off the basis of today, his energy will be such an asset and so vital throughout the campaign. Thought Chalobah was decent, broke up play well, plenty interceptions, looked fit and got around the pitch well, was noted on commentary when he came off but while he did well to get the ball back, he could of done better with what he then went on to do with it. Dele-Bashiru had a really good game, seems to have a good relationship with Quina, comfortable on the ball, tidy in possession really like what I saw and can see him being a valuable player if not a starter this season. Speaking of Quina, my word what a gem. I think we all knew it but this kid has serious talent. Just a brilliant player, Doucoure going really doesn't matter when we have this kid to step in.

    Andre Gray had a good game. Great penalty, plenty energy, appeared to actually have a first touch and seemed to of found his pace again. Was refreshing to see him break through with his power and was unlucky not to score but positive for him, can see him perhaps starting with it still up in the air with Suarez.

    LOVE Daniel Phillips! Comes on, kicks everyone in sight and leaves. Brilliant. Joao Pedro always looked like he could create something, loved him leaving one on Alli after that horror tackle which should have been a red regardless of it being a friendly. Penaranda wasn't to effective, loves a showboat but was largely ineffective. Can see he has played football in a long time. Sierralta was okay, only on trial according to the commentary but who knows anymore. Someone said it earlier but did look very flat footed. Murray didn't do much bar give away a penalty.

    All in all, a good run out which gives plenty promise for the upcoming season. Still plenty to do in the window. Exciting times.
     
  10. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Excellent post, captures most of the thoughts I’m having at the current time.

    That said, I’m not able to agree with your position on the players we want gone. Typically, I’d agree with you, but I think last season, it became clear we’ve got some toxic elements in the squad. If there are players who haven’t been good for the dressing room in years past, and now want out, I don’t want them anywhere near the players who we are hoping will take us back up this year.

    I think it’s been accepted it’ll weaken our negotiation position when moving them on, but it’s considered a worthwhile loss to keep them ostracized and out of the heads of those we need to rely on.
     
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  11. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I agree with the point more generally, but we should be keeping Welbeck wrapped in bubble wrap with his injury record if we want to get him sold.

    Seems very odd not to include players like Capoue for random U23s and trialists unless a move is very close.
     
  12. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Totally agree. Extremely important that any players bought in to replace those leaving are good players at this level.
     
  13. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Agree with this. Would be great to have the squad finalised in the next couple of weeks. If Pereyra doesn’t want to play for us (for example) then hope we can get rid of him as soon as possible.
     
  14. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Drawer.

    It's the new fewer.


    Maybe.
     
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  15. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Didn’t see the game live. My brother told me about a challenge that Alli put it on Pedro, but then Pedro got his own back.

    I watched the extended highlights from the club on the official YouTube channel and they have omitted both. Really wanted to see it.
     
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  16. 3000

    3000 Reservist

    Is Masina still sidelined with hurt feelings?
     
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  17. NemoNemo

    NemoNemo Reservist

    Can I watch the game again through hive? It says on the website re-runs are available but I can’t find anything
     
  18. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Heaven knows with this club what is happening with transfers in, out, and what the dynamics are behind the scenes. It is disappointing not to see some of the missing players, but if so many want out, I can't really see the point of playing them, personally. But the omission of Suarez is a bit concerning, and the inclusion of Estupinan against Spurs, who have previously been linked with buying him, a bit worrying (he showed yesterday that we should be keeping him).

    But, concentrating on yesterday's performance, I thought it was a really positive. I thought there were some excellent performances from individuals, and a really good team performance overall.

    Yes, it is a friendly, with all the usual caveats, but I can't remember seeing a pre-season friendly where the players were taking everything so seriously and where the play was so cohesive, particularly considering how the team was effectively thrown together from all over the world. We were up against a strong Spurs team and we did really well against them. Who could not have been impressed with Quina, Ngakia, Dele-Bashiru, Estupinan or Pedro.

    I thought we were more comfortable on the ball than we have seen for years, and considering how often we normally give the ball away, was a major plus for me. We were intense, progressive and enterprising in midfield, and showed some real steel. The fact that we had so many young players with quality has to be a huge big plus, for me.
    And, I don't agree with others that say that yesterday's team would fail miserably in the Championship, I think it would do very well. I think some posters think that everything is tikkity-boo in all the other teams, with no problems, no doubts, and all at the top of their game.

    On that showing, we are chalk and cheese compared with last season. I am still a bit concerned up on the goalscoring front as so much is unclear who we will be available. I actually think Murray will prove to be an asset up there, but we need someone else, for sure.

    The shoutbox was plagued by the usual suspects slagging us off and writing off players, like young Phillips, after only about 3 minutes on the pitch, so whilst we can hope for better things on the pitch, it seems that we are stuck with the same "fans" off the pitch.
     
  19. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Huge disappointment. Not the match, that was fine. Early days of course, but promising.

    No, I'm talking about NathWFC still vomiting out his usual condescending bile. I'm sure he said quite a few times last season that he hated the club and wasn't going to bother any more.
     
  20. You can see Suarez in the stand seated (wearing a training track suit) clapping Quinas goal in the Instagram clip, so perhaps a knock in training
     
  21. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    That's an excellent spot.

    There didn't seem to be (m)any of the other missing senior pros in the stands with him, so could be a reassuring sign:

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Reservist

    Definitely encouraging yesterday. We played sone nice quick counterattacking football and looked pretty solid and organised at the back . Even though we were poor in the second half from an attacking perspective we continued to look solid .

    In addition , thinking back to our season post lockdown I feel the team looked sharper yesterday than they ever did During that period , which bodes well .

    Encouraging signs from Chalobah ( who at the least needs to get some consistent playing time) and Dele Bashiru. Plus, we know Qina is hugely talented but will be interesting to see if he can do it consistently in the championship .

    still lots of question marks around who is staying /going . Of all the players missing some will stays it sure . I think John Marks suggested Capoue might be injured still so perhaps he will stay along with Hughes , in which case we should be ok in midfield .

    My main concern then is finding a decent combination up front. Think Gray could do well given his record in the championship and hopefully Suarez will stay and live up to the hype . But still a bit of an unknown . I don’t think we want to be relying on Murray .
     
  23. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    Personally, and it’s only my opinion and I wouldn’t dream of telling anybody that the opposite view is wrong, but I wouldn’t be playing anybody who looks like leaving.

    Why would we want to start the season with three or four players who we then have to replaced in the side three or four matches in? How disruptive that would be.

    People may say ‘oh yes but if we did, then we will win more games at the start’. Hmm yes, but that seems to ignore the fact that we’ve performed well in both friendlies without them. It also assumes that players who are wanting away will perform to a high standard. Imagine we started next week with Deeney up front? He then goes to WBA or wherever on deadline day and we have to almost start again in attack. What message does it send out too to those who want to stay and who are desperate to play? ‘Oh you will only get a game when the big names all leave’.

    We’ve spent the summer crying out for a dressing room shake up, removing the toxic influences and player power. The same influences, by the way, who feeling left out of things by Ivic immediately ran squealing to the Daily Mail. We spent the last sorry months of last season moaning every time we saw our team sheet, crying out for change, crying out for the younger players to get a chance. And yesterday we got that!

    I’m not deluded or happy clappy (although I don’t see why remaining a positive supporter of my beloved club should be thrown against us as some sort of put down). I’ve followed football long enough to know we have a lot of hard work ahead and our squad does need new arrivals. I’m sure they will come. We’ve been linked with some useful names over the past few days. Grimes. Busquets. Troost-Ekong. Etc. As soon as players leave, I’m confident we will re-enforce and have some money to do so with too.

    I’m not naive enough to think yesterday’s win means we are currently strong enough to walk the league. Far from it. But I’m encouraged by pre-season. Our side yesterday was a nice mix of youth and experience. Crucially the youth performed. We saw their possibilities. They were nicely balanced with the likes of Cleverley, Gray, Dawson etc. There is still an experienced spine. We have Foster, Hughes, Sema, Sarr and Suarez to add to yesterday’s squad (assuming none are sold). We should have new arrivals too.

    I don’t see the point in taking a step backwards and starting the season with the bigger names, who’ve not played in the friendlies and probably won’t be here in October.

    Just my views. I don’t expect to be told I’m wrong, because there really isn’t a right or wrong. I respect the other side of the debate just as much.
     
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  24. Great post you read my mind
     
  25. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    Yesterday’s two goals were both scored by players who attended the infamous lockdown birthday party.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain


    You are wrong......(ha ha...only joking)

    But here's the other side of the debate. The two friendlies have shown a very good level of performance, especially yesterday which is heartening. You can see how fit and determined the group is and they are playing to a disciplined shape. With younger players you can influence them better than older more cynical pros. So these are all plus points, which feed into what you're saying, and I go along with that, because we all want to see local or young talents break through and hold down a regular place.

    But the quality has to be exceptional.. Ngakia and Quina have hugely impressed me. Dele-Bashiru looks like he could be useful as a squad player as does Phillips. Estupinan looked like a much better option than Masina and I suspect Suarez will be our main striker. I think Pedro and obviously Sarr (if he stays) will also be first team players as will Wilmot, so that's already a lot of first team young starting players.

    So that's 7 "nailed on" first team players who are young, plus a couple of decent squad players.

    But you need quality experience around them. Cleverley & Foster have that, plus the central defenders are experienced players. But you need to retain someone like Capoue. You have to be careful over those you allow to leave because they will not easily be replaced. We'll find it hard to attract good quality while we're in the Championship.

    We need to keep a big squad, so it's a fine balancing act. Right now, I think we've gone too far with the stripping back and hopefully some of those excluded players will be brought back to the fold.
     
  27. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    I think Capoue is still recovering from the injury that kept him out of the last few games of last season. I don’t think he’s been excluded because of the interest from Valencia or whatever.
     
  28. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    6.45 Friday is going to be very interesting. It would be some statement if we still have the lines of Welbeck, Capoue, Femenia and Pereyra on the books and we choose not to use them at all. Can't think of many relegated teams that would do that.
     
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  29. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    Would also be a big statement if we do play them - not many championship teams would have that level of (potential) ability
     
  30. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m not sure really what that is based on? Of course it’s only a friendly, but they actually beat Tottenham, not lost, so the evidence we have to hand is that they’d do better than mid table in the championship, I certainly don’t see the evidence to the contrary?

    On another note, it’s only a penalty but Gray took that fantastically well which is a glimmer of hope. Troy’s ‘technique’ has been widely debated, it’s effective but he effectively smashes it down the middle every time, he has never placed them in the corners. The fact that Gray could take a couple of steps and place it on the corner shows that there is some ability there. Incidentally his record from pens in competitive games is 7/8. I think he’s going to have a good season.
     
  31. Ainzrocker

    Ainzrocker First Year Pro

    Of those who didn't play against Spurs there are varying degrees of probability that they'll be in the squad.

    Hughes, Capoue and Delufeou are injured so won't feature
    Cathcart and Sema have been on international duty so could feature but I'd suspect bench only
    Suarez and Foster have been around the group so you would suspect they've just been rested ahead of the game
    Deeney, Femenia, Masina, Pereyra, Welbeck, Success would be highly unlikely in my book as have not featured in pre-season and wouldn't be fully match fit
    Biggest question is Sarr as not sure which bucket he falls into

    So I think we'll have the team we had yesterday, plus Suarez, Foster, Sema and Cathcart and big maybe on Sarr
     
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  32. According to his Instagram Success isn't training with the club so he's gone. Don't know why people keep mentioning him. G. O. N. E.
     
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  33. And Capoue maybe

    Comfortably a better side that the one we were promoted with

    My only concern is the wing backs. Ngakia and Espupinan are going to do some miles this season with 343/352/3412 or whatever we play. I'm convinced we need cover in case on injury or burnout.
     
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  34. Ainzrocker

    Ainzrocker First Year Pro

    Yes, this was my thought. Absence of Femenia suggests heavily that he won't be around (even though I'd be far more comfortable with him at wing back than full back ironically), Janmaat remains a big doubt due to injury, Masina doesn't seem suited to left back and has been just as absent so we do seem short.

    Yesterday we ended up with Wilmot out on the left I think and Sierra on the right. Fine if you're trying to hold a 1-0 vs. Stoke but not enough cover for the full season.
     
  35. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    He's injured and doing his recovery away from the rest of the group just like Deeney.
     

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