Walter Mazzarri - Ex Manager

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcmoog, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. The injury situation must be sorted before we take any other action. Whoever takes us to the end of the season is going to need a properly fit squad.
     
  2. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Where do we go from here. There seems to be so much wrong that is appears overwhelming right now.

    We have players that are half hearted and not committed. We have a defence that is shambolic. We are disorganised. The lack spirit and fight is alarming.

    You can question the owner's judgement on what makes a good coach, but you cannot question their commitment. They have invested a huge sum of money in getting Mazzarri and his extraordinarily large backroom team. They've invested vast sums in the medical centre, but where is the payback?

    Mazzarri does not help himself by showing a lack of humility. He's always looking for an excuse. His latest being that all teams are better in the Premier League this season compared to last. (or could it be Watford are worse?)

    A lot of our problems have to be firmly placed at Mazzarri's door. He chooses the formation, he drills the team, he motivates and inspires, he sets out the tactical plan. Injuries are one thing and I know he'll make full use of that as an excuse, but what about the lack of effort shown by the players? What's the excuse for this? What's the excuse for the disorganisation throughout the entire team?

    You can be beaten by a better team, but the opposition cannot dictate how much effort you put in. How much running off the ball you are prepared to do. That is down to us, and when you get over 50% of players not prepared to work hard for the team you have serious problems.

    Mazzarri is a man who instantly looks for excuses, and that tells me he is a not secure. This worries me greatly about him. There is nothing wrong with saying he's got it wrong but has a plan to put it right. To say everything is fine, is just treating fans with contempt.

    The Spurs match is there for all to see. It was on Sky and has been slammed by absolutely everyone. There is no hiding place.

    My feeling is that he has two games to save his job. Stoke (a) and Boro (h). Lose these and he'll be gone I'm sure of it.
     
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Alan Pardew?
     
  4. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Well I struggle to understand your logic altogether, apart from the fact that you are wriggling to the point of daftness. The same stats might be arbitary if we are in April or October, but we are not (hence the firework displays and new year celebrations, etc, in case you hadn't noticed). :doh:

    Those stats represent our last 12 months and show that, compared with our peers we are doing worse than almost every other team, over that 12 months. How is that meaningless? For heavens sake, we are half way through the "3 year project", should we not be making some progress. Christmas 2015 we were something like 7th and in a position where even with the enormous slump we went into, we still survived. As of now, despite all your protestations over the past few weeks, we are absolutely not safe.
     
  5. No one expects to beat top 6 teams but there is no excuse for a team unable to do the basics

    There is also no excuse for only having a plan A which entails hoof to Deeney and try to win a 2nd ball

    Why are our players incapable of passing through and around a high press with lots of movement and quick passing?

    There are lots of things wrong with the club but this abject ****e I'm afraid sits at Wallys door
     
  6. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Well to be fair the 'excuse' of having 10 first teamers injured or suspended is quite a powerful one, isn't it? It's hardly fair to judge Mazzari by a team performance when half of the players are missing.

    As for lack of effort, I saw Amrabat, Holebas and perhaps Capoue and Iggy not running their guts out as hard as they should on a few occasions, but the match was already long since lost by then. I'm not forgiving them for that, but I can understand why heads would drop having gone 3-0 down to a team that was passing through us like a knife through butter. Until we went one down, we were reasonably in the game and if we'd had the quality of Pererya crossing for the likes of Success or Okaka, rather than Gueds and Iggy running directly into the nearest Spuds defender we might have done a bit better in that opening period.

    And since Mazzari is not out on the pitch, surely motivation during a game is something that our captain is supposed to look after? Where was he?

    I think Deeney is a limited player at Prem level, but I thought it was worth hanging on to him for the sake of his leadership qualities and driving the other players on. If he's unable to do that either, then perhaps it's time to let Sheffield Wednesday or the Shanghai Soccerstars know of his availability and bring in someone who can. I'm also sick of Deeney's blind headed flick ons to the opposing defence. He's really not contributing very much at all currently and a fair amount of the blame has to lie at the door of his Lamborghini Contache.

    We've already had 8 managers in 4 years and it's time to let Mazzari build a team and have a fair crack at it. I'm fed up of keep changing manager all the time.
     
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    The only reason I think Mazzarri is still in a job is because of the large commitment the owner has made with him.

    I'm sure Gino's extremely disappointed at how it's all going. Regardless of what Mazzarri says, staying up by the skin of our teeth is not the progress the owner would like. Look what he did with Flores, safe by Christmas, finished 13th and an FA Cup semi final. Not good enough because behind the scenes things were not right and we could all see this watching from the stands.

    Right now, I'd say we are even worse than last season. I don't remember too many performances quite as bad as what we're seeing now. Only the very end of last season can compare, and that's when Flores knew he was going and the players had mentally gone on holiday.

    So the questions are is there signs of improvement and, if not, how long before the trigger is pulled?
     
  8. Nnnn

    Nnnn First Team

    Completely agree. Unless Walter is in some way responsible the for the injuries, which IMO he's not, it makes no sense to ditch him.
     
  9. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    God you're boring.
    Do you ever think 'people should be clear on my position, however ridiculous, so I'll just leave it at that'?
     
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Fair enough. Sorry to bore you. I thought a forum was a place to air views and opinions. My mistake.
     
  11. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    It sure is. I pretty consistently sit in the optimist, stop panicking camp. But writing the same ****ing monologue again and again and again in every thread is what's tedious.
     
  12. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    I won't write off Mazzarri simply because there have been great moments this season, which seem to conveniently often get forgotten about or dismissed as flash in the pan. Beating the 'Special One'. The comeback at the London Stadium. Etc.

    However, what's so disappointed me is yesterday's defending. We could have had Pereyra, Success and/or Okaka fit and therefore hopefully carried more attacking threat, but that back line yesterday consisted of 3 very experienced defenders plus keeper and two experienced players in the wingback roles. 20 games in to his reign at Watford and an experienced Italian coach is in charge for that?!!!!!
     
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It's a thread entitled 'Mazarri Out' and I've only just posted on it. I do not share your view, but I do not consider you boring because you are optimistic. You should not feel so threatened by home truths. You're not the only one, I'm building quite an "anti-fan club" because people would rather avoid difficult questions.

    I think fans that just accept everything are misguided and are doing the club a disservice in not speaking out when things are clearly going wrong.
     
  14. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    Not sure if his selections are helping us. Starting Cathcart ahead of Kabasele seemed odd to me.

    When available I am pretty sure Watson is a better Prem player than Gueds.

    Also would rather see Sinclair till Iggy finds some kind of form.
     
  15. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I will add three points to the debate;

    1.Did the team abort mentally and physically after the first goal? It seemed to me all remnants of belief and spirit drained away after the opener. Sometimes in sport,especially at elite level you KNOW the other team/player is far superior. This is far from acceptable but too many yesterday were very easily dispirited and checked out of the game at 1-0.

    2.Someone earlier made reference to the Huddersfield game where it seemed the team downed tools and effectively got Bepe the boot. There was the whiff of that yesterday too and that is repellent. Player power at its most nauseating.

    3. As mentioned pre game I attended the Barnet game on Saturday with my cousin. There were approximately 500 Bees there at that God forsaken,flea ridden khasi of a dump. They all supported the team and those I spoke to accepted that the other team were unfortunately superior.
    There was a refreshing innocence to their support and,whilst aware of their team's shortcomings,continued to encourage and back them. Some of our fellow fans have either short memories or no knowledge of our history. We are not a big club but a club with big ambitions. We should strive very hard not to become like all the other PL teams that have such a myopic,entitled outlook.

    ps can someone fix the leak in The Rookery roof,I was wetter than a haddock's bathing costume yesterday!
     
  16. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Fair questions. He clearly doesn't rate Kabasele. Watson has "personal" difficulties,whatever that may be but I hope they are successfully resolved. I would bet my supper tonight that Sir Clive starts tomorrow but expect poor old Iggy to limp on and on until he disappears in an instagram haze.
     
  17. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It's not because people would rather avoid difficult questions. It's because you post the same thing over and over again and at great length. At any rate I think you may be right that Mazzari is on borrowed time. The upcoming Boro and Burnley home games are crucial for him. He needs 4 points for sure. To be honest they are starting to look crucial for the whole club never mind what happens to Mazzari.
     
  18. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    The team seem to be lacking key vitals installed in any team, be it in the premier league or the southern conference.

    *Motivation
    *Passion for the shirt

    We have had a slew of managers over the past few seasons, be us in the championship or the premiership - that is not the major problem. Managers come and go, player tend to stick around a bit longer than they do. Yes, we need new blood as from what I witnessed on Sunday on Sky was perhaps one of the worst Watford performances I have seem since we got hammered 5-0 by Fulham in 2001.

    The manager needs to sit the players down, talk to them one on one if need be, and remind them why they wear that yellow shirt. If they are just standing around for 90 minutes for the good money then they can take the next bus out of Hertfordshire. If we lose a game, then that's o.K and thats football if the team played well and tried their best. What I saw on Sunday (and more this season and the end of last) is a bunch of talented players who cannot be bothered anymore. I love Troy Deeney and has been my fave player since he joined from Walsall. Richard Johnson (a top and much loved player) had the passion that Deeney showed us then, and we need players with Johnson and other past players passion and work rate.

    Yes, we are not has good as most of the teams in this league on paper, but we ARE a premier league team. I want us to keep being one. I watched Crystal Palace walk all over us on Boxing Day and we were lucky to get a point that day - Palace deserved to win that game. The players need to ignore the media which is going to get on their backs, listen to each other, listen to the fans when we Boo and have a right to. We all love this team - they need to give us at least some of that love back on the pitch, even if we cannot win every game - THEY NEED THEIR HEARTS BACK.
     
  19. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Is there anyone he does rate? Every time a player is left out, the stock answer - 'he doesn't rate him' comes out.

    I thought a coach was meant to improve players. Not just disregard them because he doesn't fancy them. Especially in these days of limited windows to sign players.

    Isn't Walter the magical coach that turned various Napoli players into world beaters?
     
  20. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Never mind magical coach,let's hope he's a medical coach. The way it's going as long as they have a torso,four limbs and some sort of head they'll get a game.
     
  21. Necrobutcher

    Necrobutcher Reservist

    I'm available as a recruitment officer. I can definitely dig up an entire new team who adhere to that criteria, and show more commitment than yesterday.
     
  22. magic

    magic Statto & Vordamen's lovechild

    I'd rather get relegated
     
  23. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I generally like your posts as you are an optimist, much like me :D

    But we have been shocking recently and recognizing that doesn't make us pessimists.

    Posting ever optimistically, despite the obvious problems, is also tedious.

    The optimists amongst us had every reason to look forward to this season. A new respected coach, some quality signings. It could be reasonably expected that Walter could get the goalscorers working well, as reported, and that we would play progressively like the man himself said we would. Plus, we could expect that he could speak English as he told us that he had been living in Manchester for a year specfically to do just that. Ostensibly our squad is better than last year, so why should we struggle?

    I started to worry though before the end of the window when Walter declared that we did not need any more strikers. We had two forwards that were pathetic in the last 5 months or so of last season (apart from a decent May from Troy) and who had a poor start to this season. So we had two untried (in the Prem) potential replacement players in Okaka and Success and we were shipping off Berguis who was starting to play well. That concern has unfortunately proven well founded and when a forward line is so pedestrian and toothless and the build up is so slow and laboured, then the defence is put under such terrible pressure. Generally they have coped well, but I have said several times, that such a defence can only stem the tide for so long before the floodgates tend to open.

    I and others have pointed out many times that winning or drawing is not the only issue, it is also how we play that matters. Personally, I have only been pleased with our performance 2 or 3 times. "We got the points, what more do you want" I am countered, yet "only doing enough" to get the points falls flat when we are hit by injuries and, what seems to be, a lack of spirit and endeavour. Suddenly, we are not able to do "just enough" and a slump becomes a potential slide down the table.

    Now, it seems that Walter is as blind to our faults as some of the fans on here. I have not said that I think he should go, but if he was to go, I am concerned about the sort of replacement the Pozzo's will come up with. But how on earth can he be expected to fix a problem he doesn't even think we have got. That performance yesterday had little to do with injuries, yet he like many of you, he cant see that.

    Now that does make me feel pessimistic.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  24. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

     
  25. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

    Would certainly be VERY expensive to change. I forget exactly how long his contract is but I seem to remember 4 years?
     
  26. SouthernHornet

    SouthernHornet Reservist

    3 but knowing pozzos they've probably put a clause in that he will be released for nothing after a season
     
  27. Necrobutcher

    Necrobutcher Reservist

    The rot that led to yesterday's putrid showing had set in before the glut of injuries. We've been on the slide since Burnley, and the cracks are just getting bigger and bigger. I can't think of a single aspect of football that isn't in decline in our game since that match at Turf Moor. There were things in sharp decline when Zola's time was up, but there were ways to defend what he was doing. I just don't see how Walter is going to change the direction we're going in, which is towards the drop zone with increasing momentum.

    Yeah, we were 7th etc. The table that matters is the final one in May, and I'm not optimistic about our safety under current personnel.
     
  28. Travis Bickle

    Travis Bickle Reservist

    And it's on the injuries point that I don't agree. A few people have pointed out that 9 of the 11 started against Spurs last season: in my mind that is exactly the problem. The starting 11 last season shocked everyone by performing way above expectations, but were found out in the second half.

    The likes of Pererya, Success, Okaka and Janmaat are an absolutely pivotal part of our improvement as a club, as they are better players than the equivalents in their position.
    Sometimes people forget that every other team in this league has strengthened their squad at an equal or bigger measure than we have (particularly the top 6), so standing still in our second season is an achievement and a half. With less experienced players available to us than at this point last season we definitely have a bottom 3 team.

    The new players, when fit, bring pace, trickery and unpredictability. That's why I have some sympathy for Quique, I really don't know how much better he could have done with that squad last season in the end. Mazarri has a much better squad to pick from, but not when 10 of them are injured.
    He should also be afforded some time with a fully fit squad.

    Yesterday was about more than just injuries, but if this 18 players were the only ones available to any manager between now and the end of the season, I don't think anyone would keep us up.
     
  29. The only thing those stats show, is just how abject Quique's season was between January to May and have NOTHING what so ever to do with Walther.

    Take off Quique's stats and we're mid table, FACT. If you believe stats are significant, then quote that.

    This alone shows how desperate some are to bring down Walter to the extent that they will use Quique being poop to declare how bad Walter is.

    Those stats of Quique's are the reason the Pozzos got rid of him: we have known for some time how bad they were. They will not be the reason we get rid of Walter.
     
  30. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    You might be right, but I would expect better managers to get better performances from his team. Maybe things are different in private, but blaming such a poor performance on the pitch on something that affects only the players who weren't even on the pitch just does not seem right to me.

    Amrabat was the only starter, in my opinion, that can be excused yesterday. Although Decoure, asked to make his debut against top-notch opposition deserves some sympathy. The rest, front to back, were poor. Please just tell me which of the goals scored against us was down to injury.

    I seem to think that you believe that just because we were hit by injuries, those left should just give up - as they have a ready excuse.

    They should do their job that they are handsomely paid for, that is all I expect.
     
  31. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Right. Nothing to do with the players then (after all, our forward line have been great all year, havn't they), or the recruitment policy, or the fitness regimes, etc.

    ...and Walter is blameless as well!

    OK.

    I just hope that the club dont think everything is just fine and dandy!

    In any case, if you check what I was saying on this thread I was not using the stats to bash Walter, I was making a general point about us going backwards over the past 12 months.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  32. I am happy for Walter to continue as coach, and I think he is capable of doing a job for us, but I am starting to get the feeling that too many things are running away from him that he cannot get control of, all exacerbated by his failure to pick up English.

    I think the language barrier is just too great, and no improvement seems to be happening; Capoue saying in his Sky interview that they don't always understand him, but they get the gist of what he says sounds more like damnation than a commendation.

    So, though I don't want him out, I do think it will take something pretty incredible to stop the momentum that is being rolled along by the injuries, and, sadly, a great deal of negativity from many fans. Frankly, I think it is more likely that he will be gone by the end of the season than not unless he can literally stand up and speak for himself, and I can't picture that happening any time soon.
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  34. Luther Bassett

    Luther Bassett Reservist

  35. Without question, those stats show us reestablishing ourselves over the last six months, only stumbling more recently due to a horrendous injury list.

    Things are not fine and dandy at the moment, but for all people are saying on here, the biggest issue is with injuries and the effect they are having on the match day team.

    Mazzarri may be an issue, but we cannot know for sure until we have a predominantly fit squad; it seems fair to say that we were doing well when he had that going for him. Conversely, it is undeniable that our season has tailed off as the injuries have got worse, and whatever people say, that is the reality of the situation.
     

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