Walter Mazzarri - Ex Manager

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcmoog, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky First Year Pro

    What was the word from Spurs about him when we signed him? I seem to recall it was along the lines of talented but sulky if he wasn't shown the love he felt was due.
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Are we just unlucky with these injuries or has the new fancy medical centre been a bit of a flop?

    What do they do in the warm up for example...
  3. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I personally think it's 95% bad luck, last season we had next to no injuries, which in itself is highly unusual.
  4. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

    Fair question. However, the role of medical/fitness is much wider than the warm up. It involves the whole training regime and the planned recovery after injuries. I think there is considerable doubt as to whether replacing Collinge was a good move.
  5. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Nicely put. But the "injury crisis" has only really been a factor over the past few weeks.

    Over the past 15 weeks there has been ample time to use substitutes, or rotation as some sort of "gee-up" for the players. Walter has rarely used the method. Watson should have played sometimes in place of both Behrami and Capoue, he rarely let's us down, yet is in exile. Players like Sinclair, Decoure, maybe Mason, should have been introduced earlier - against the lower sides instead of against the best teams in the league. We were so lucky with injuries last year, we should have prepared better this year. Even though the severity of the injuries coud not have been foreseen, we have been so poor on too many occasions, there was ample opportunity to shake things up.

    Re your last point, if Deeney and Iggy had been sold for £50m then we wouldn't have seen how bad they were either. They would have been someone else's problem. As it is, Deeney was given godlike status as an ever-present until there was almost no one to replace him.

    Would we have suffered too much if Mason had started occasionally instead of Holebas? I doubt it?

    Cathcart and Prodl are hardly strangers having played together last season and Cathcart has been training with the team for the past few weeks. He isn't match fit, but the 2nd goal was just poor defending - and I believe that Gomes could have been more useful on the cross. The third, following Kaboul's mistake ,may have been prevented had Carthcart been sharper, I agree.

    I agree with you on Amrabat, but when I referred to him in what happened with their 4th, goal, he ran back, but was ball chasing rather than taking Ali. It wasn't down to lack of effort or fitness.

    I stick with what I have already said. Injuries contribute, but are a minor factor when compared with the sheer poor play.

    Finally, it is pretty damning that players need the threat of being dropped or being substituted to get motivated. Bank Holiday, local derby, etc, etc. What has happened to the backs to the wall, seige mentality that we used to see at Watford. Can you imagine us saving a penalty and sprinting up field to score an injury time winner now?

    I can't.
  6. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    You seem to decide your views on how good we are solely by where we are in the table on any given day, I doubt if you know what cause and effect even means! :D
  7. Oscar calling

    Oscar calling Squad Player

    I think we are very lucky that there are three teams worse than us namely Hull, Swansea and Sunderland. However I can't see us finishing above anyone else unless reinforcements are brought in such as Ashley Young.

    I think it was a huge mistake to bring in a manager that can't (or won't) speak English and for this reason alone he needs to be ditched at the end of the season.
  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Good point - I presume Success and Okaka have muscle imbalance issues as Boothroyd used to call it!

    Seems to me they last a game or two then out for weeks.

    Shame as I certainly think they really would give us something else attack wise - as would Janmaat.
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Ashley Young will save us. He's our only hope.
  10. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    We are a low to mid table Premier League team.

    We want to stay in the division and get a defensive manager who keeps us up. The football is horrible and we call for more entertainment. We don't want this 10 men behind the ball stuff anymore. When we lose it looks like the players aren't trying. As fans we are not happy.

    We get a new manager who wants to play more attacking football which, unfortunately, many of the players are not capable of doing at this level. We get a few tonkings from the better teams alongside the odd amazing win.
    As fans we're not happy because we are losing and it appears that many players aren't trying. We think the players aren't performing for the manager. We want another new manager to be er...

    Maybe the next one will be amazing and get us into the top 6. Then we'll lose him anyway as he'll go to manage a bigger team, taking a few of our best players with him.

    Or maybe he'll be even worse than the one we've got, and the one we had before, and get us relegated.

    This is the life of every fan outside the top 6 in the Premier League. We can dream about doing a Leicester, but what do you think they are debating every time they lose this season? The manager is crap and the players don't try!

    I don't know what we can do it about it except support a team in the top 6 and of course we won't do that.
  11. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    I don't really know what to think to be honest.

    On the one hand, I really dislike Mazzarri. I don't like the fact that he doesn't speak English and I don't like that the players still seem uncomfortable with his formations (it's been 6 months now I believe).

    On the other hand, injuries cannot excuse the dreadful defensive display that we were witness to this afternoon. Spurs never even had to get out of 2nd gear today because our comical defending ensured that they would be gifted a goal scoring opportunity from some calamitous mistake. I was disappointed with their body language today also. They didn't seem overly bothered to have been bent over and fingered the opposition. *******s! Show some fight, yell at each other and stop embarrassing yourselves.

    To sum up then, I think Mazzarri is quite dislikeable, and some of the players are not coming anywhere near to earning their paychecks. It says a lot that an 18 year old full back making his senior debut for us today was the most exciting and positive thing about this afternoon.

    I don't like this team at the moment.
  12. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    All very nice talking about the injuries but that doesn't excuse the fact that the players on the pitch today showed no passion, couldn't pass to a man and made very basic mistakes that I would not expect to see at Borehamwood FC
  13. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I think they hit each other with hammers to warm up the bones.
  14. J.B

    J.B First Team

    Did you notice who was in the opposite dugout today?
  15. Harrow Orn

    Harrow Orn Squad Player

    True. But Pochettino seemed to get his tactics spot on at Southampton when he couldn't speak the language. Same cant be said with Walter.
  16. Harrow Orn

    Harrow Orn Squad Player

    Walter telling the players to calm down after the 2nd goal was annoying. No Walter, they need to be fired up ffs.
  17. J.B

    J.B First Team

    He said that ''for this reason alone (not speaking English) he needs to be ditched at the end of the season''.
  18. Harrow Orn

    Harrow Orn Squad Player

    Ah, then you are correct.
  19. This is not true. We have been dogged by injuries for months now. Iggy wouldn't have got a fraction of the games he has if Okaka and Success were fit, and I suspect we would have seen less of Deeney; and the defence has constantly had to be re-jigged because of injuries across the board. The situation has got worse, and as it has, our play has directly reflected the declining situation in injuries, suggesting they do play a significant part.

    I don't doubt it. Mason did OK today, and would benefit from further game time, but I find it very difficult to understand why it would be assumed that he would have been putting in MOM performances, the odd goal, and the most assists of any player, as Holebas has done. Very bold assumption based on a couple of dozen minutes of football.

    Fair dos, but I suspect if you were in charge of a premier league team with the injury problems we have at the moment, you'd probably be suggesting it was a major factor in you not managing to play the football you would have liked to play against one of the countries hottest teams at the moment. You might even think the fans could cut you a little slack. Suggesting that having over a third of your senior squad unavailable is a minor factor on a key match day, particularly when form is a major concern for some of the players left in, seems a little ungenerous to say the least.

    Personally, I can't wait for our players to get fit so we can show teams what we can do when running on all cylinders, and the head coach gets to play the game he intends to play with his first choice team.
  20. tonycotonstache

    tonycotonstache Reservist

    How many good performances have we had this season with or without the injuries?

    How many poor performances with or without the injuries?

    Liverpool was as poor a performance as yesterday. Burnley even worse. Injuries didn't contribute to those did they?
  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Are we talking about the actual table this time or the make believe annual one you seem to prefer?
  22. molly

    molly Reservist

    Mazzarri is being forced to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with the squad available to him. If he'd had a somewhere close to fully fit squad to chose from and the performances were as poor, I'd be on the 'Mazzarri out' bandwagon quick as a flash.

    Truth is, Deeney, Ighalo, Guédioura, Kaboul, Sinclair, Mason, Stewart, Rowan, Folivi and Pantilimon are Championship level players at best, and the rest available against Tottenham were mid to lower premiership level.

    The gulf in class was immense, and I'd love to hear the names of other managers that could have done any better than Mazzarri on the day. Pochettino would have struggled just as badly.
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well Kaboul still thinks he is good enough for Spurs - maybe some have an inflated ego of themselves..
  24. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I don't prefer a table that looks back over the past 12 months, but I am astounded that anyone who thinks he knows about football would suggest (strongly) that it is meaningless as we are now "doing OK". Seeing where we progress or not compared with our peers is important to anybody that cares about performance. That counts for sport or business and the Premier League is both. For someone obviously intelligent who posts so knowledgeably on the politics thread you seem to post a lot of daft things in your attempts to defend your stance that we are "doing well",

    ...including your latest gems


    Strange how you think that averages based on previous seasons are relevant to you, yet knowing our own performance over the past 12 months, is meaningless!

    If, heaven forbid, we end up in a relegation scrap, is anyone going to be impressed by your claims just a few weeks ago that we were "almost safe" or words to that effect, even though they were posted when we were really struggling, despite the odd decent result?

    I still think we could turn things around, but listening to Walter, he seems to think the same as you and a few others, that we are playing well and that everything else is to blame. Reading posters on here that think we are "doing well" is somewhat amusing, but seeing our head coach (at least publicly) denying anything is wrong, bar the injuries, is distinctly worrying.
  25. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Walter in for me,but we all know Gino!

    I think the sooner we accept we are in a relegation scrap and unite behind the team the better.

    Palace will improve,Hull seem to be playing ok but not getting the luck. Swansea? Surely they will improve and apparently will have 30m to spend although who will go there is another matter.

    Time for all to earn their not inconsiderable salaries!
  26. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It's odd. You'd think my pessimistic approach to the season, hoping/expecting only 17th place, would see me being the more depressive and negative but the opposite seems to be true. Some on here appear to be truly bereft at our current turn of form. It was always going to happen, particularly with our overrated miserable squad of players. I still think we've got enough to avoid major trouble though and there's a major points gap for our competitors to bridge.

    And as for:

    I struggle to believe you've just written it. The 12 months are meaningless because they're completely arbitrary. You could run them from any month you pick and you'd get a different outcome.* You must realise that? Whereas 24 seasons of statistical data is a good body of evidence on which to draw conclusions. Not perfect, as there will always be outliers and exceptions to a rule, but it's very influential. That's the difference. There's nothing strange at all about favouring the latter over the former, it's plain common sense.

    * to underline this point if you ran it from 1 Dec 15 to 30 Nov 16, we'd have 44pts and be the 5th worst rather than 2nd worst in the annual table.
  27. iamofwfc

    iamofwfc Squad Player

    I usually wait until the next day to post after a display like that, took my godson to his first game for over 5 years and it is not often I am embarassed by the display on the pitch but was yesterday, following Watford for 40 years you can't let the results get to you but the display did yesterday, we were never going to beat Spurs, but if spurs did not take their foot off the gas we could have lost that by 6 plus goals, really don't seem the point of sacking the manager again as we will have the same problem in a years time, who ever we get in the players don't seem happy, beppe got them fit, the players moaned he was too hard, the sqaud started the season unfit the manager gets the blame.

    We lost to Fulham by 5 odd goals Boxing Day years ago but at least there was fight with the players, after each goal yesterday all the players did was slowly walk back to the centre spot blaming each other, can the manager be blamed for that?

    During the Everton game one of our big signings was sat behind me and did not react at all when either team scored.

    The only manager we could get in is Roy hodson, looking for work and I know the Iceland defeat is still fresh but did a great job at Fulham and WBA, clubs that are similar to us, what would be people's thoughts on that ?

    I really do think the problems lies with the players though, I know we have injuries but so do other clubs and but that injury list is no excuse for the effort put in by those players yesterday.

    Joka seems he may about to fall out with Fulham, I would take him back but he would have to have the final say on players

    Rant over, let's hope the players are professional and stuff stoke on Tuesday and prove they are playing for the boss
  28. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

  29. Vicarage Road

    Vicarage Road Reservist

    Quite a few of Walt's team selections have been hampered by suspensions, not injuries. Who is to blame for the lack of discipline in some of our players, is it Walt's fault, or the player's?

    Many of the squad have niggles, not injuries. some of them need to fu cking man up!
  30. Grover

    Grover First Year Pro

    Back in May 2016 when the appointment was imminent another forum member posted the below.......

    10:38 Wow
    This from Italian football expert James Richardson who, you will remember, presented Channel 4's cult show Football Italia. He clearly knows his onions when it comes to passing comment on Walter Mazzarri.

    "He was abject at Inter," he said on The Guardian Football Weekly Podcast. "He blamed everyone but himself, continually got the formation wrong, played completely uninspiring football and the fans didn't miss him at all. I would be astonished if that is who Pozzo was going for. I would be truly worried if I was a Watford fan." from wd
  31. Grover

    Grover First Year Pro

    Just so you know I'm not in the 'out' camp but do feel that something isn't quite working at present, be it the Manager, tactics or player attitude something needs to change!
  32. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

  33. TringOrn

    TringOrn First Year Pro

    I'm really not on board with Mazzarri. There's no denying that we've been desperately unlucky with injuries. If we'd had the likes of Success and Pereyra fit all season then I'm certain we'd have more points and seen some more entertaining matches. But to simply point to injuries would be a huge oversight. There are a lot of problems at the moment which stem, first and foremost, to Mazzarri, but ultimately to a failure in recruiting the right kind of players.

    What I despise about this team at the moment is the lack of fight and the lack of discipline. If things aren't going their way, they pick up stupid bookings and commit silly fouls. The players were ill prepared both yesterday and for the Palace game, and the first half performances were both equally dreadful. Zuniga's injury was obviously a factor in this yesterday, but they're Premier League footballers. Some of the marking yesterday was atrocious. Kane's first goal was so simple and so avoidable, but the players weren't focused and quite frankly looked like they didn't want to be out there.

    On a more general note, the appointment of Mazzarri and some of the signings point to a major flaw in the Pozzo recruitment system. I recall, after the absolute farce of the 13/14 season, that there was a more conscious effort to recruit domestic players. Cathcart and Watson were both vital parts of our team that season, and I'm sure I remember Duxbury saying the appointment of Sannino was a mistake and that they would only recruit English speaking managers from then on. The Premier League is a different beast, but the vast majority of squads retain an English base and I don't think this is down to a lack of scouting networks. The English game is unique and to be successful I think there has to be more of a recognition of this fact. Some of the players that we have brought in from overseas have been magnificent, but I'd love it if we started to recruit players from the Championship and maybe brought in a few of our own academy players instead of signing the likes of Zuniga.

    Not only do we become more susceptible to injury crises like we're witnessing at the moment due to a lack of squad depth, but we also risk players (and managers) failing to adapt to a new lifestyle and a new culture of football. There is some fantastic talent playing in the Championship, and I'd argue that going for the likes of Antonio and Demarai Gray would be a far less risky approach than the one we're currently adopting.

    I've gone a bit off topic, but I think the whole debate on Mazzarri is pointing to a more general feeling of disillusionment and detachment with how things are going at the moment.
  34. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    I believe we have a transfer system that, when it works appears to be the envy of many, and when it fails looks shambolic and hotchpotch.

    On the positive side it allows us to recruit widely, and often unearth a jewel or two. But equally, it can lay us open to criticism of 'mercenary' signings, players just passing through, our side constantly changing, too much flux.

    I have no idea how devoted to WFC some of our current players are. I don't think any of us do. But this transfer set-up allows a perception to develop that maybe there isn't a real heart to our side (Deeney and a few others apart). Play badly like yesterday and that perception becomes more apparent.

    It's a familiar routine now. We read that we're linked with an exotic-sounding player. We google him and look for showreel. We get excited. He arrives. And disappoints. Most clubs sign players because they're needed right there and then. We sign many for future sell-on value. It's such a revolving door. If you need only 3 players, you chose them carefully. If you know you can sign 10 every transfer window, mistakes are bound to occur.

    My own take on our current slump is it's down to LOTS of factors, and to simplify it to one thing such as should WM go, is too simple. It's a combination of the terrible injuries (which may or may not be down to our own medical appointments and training systems), our transfer policy and maybe (or maybe not) our new Head Coach. He's hard to like, and can't communicate with us. We've had some highs under him and he has a good CV so he's no fool, but he's also hard to like and I can't work out what he stands for.

    It's hard to feel cheerful today, but I'm trying desperately to remember the come back at West Ham, Zuniga's goal v Man Utd, Okaka's performance v Everton, Holebas's strike at the Riverside, that opening v Leicester etc.

    Right now though, like many here, all I can see is yesterday's mess. I expected better and feel let down.
  35. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    I'm more interested in hearing from the club on why we have had so many non contact injuries, is it the training, the recovery, the warm ups? I would assume it is being looked into and needs to be as it's ridiculous.

    Once this is sorted then give the guy a chance and see what happens. Would be a daft time to sack a manager.

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