VAR decisions

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's true, the big clubs never get the breaks. It's as though there's a VAR/Ref consipracy against them.
     
  2. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I very much agree with all this until your last point. Football doesn’t need VAR. It’s a desperate attempt at unachievable perfection in the wake of the increased number of cameras at televised matches showing up ‘mistakes’. VAR should be scrapped and effort should be concentrated on improving refereeing standards.
     
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  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree with trying to improve refereeing standards, but VAR is required to clear up the true clear and obvious injustices. It should be used once or twice, on average, for each club. It's for the blatant things the like Reading ghost goal, or the Henry handball.....that type of thing. It should not be used to see whether the ball brushes the forearm of a striker on route to a goal being scored, and all goals should not be reviewed by default.

    It should not be used for a silly technicalities like this. It's destroying the game IMO. VAR is not the problem, it's the people implementing it who are.

    No system will work, if it's being used by idiots. That's the biggest problem here.
     
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  4. Happy yellow

    Happy yellow Academy Graduate

    The problem is the that incompetent referee's are using VAR. If they are incompetent at their main job - being an on pitch referee - then why expect them to be better at a job with a different skill set? There should be an independently trained VAR team. Surely this is common sense. Also they have been instructed only to over rule clear and obvious decisions.

    No decisions are clear and obvious errors according to these officials expect for offsides and handballs ( which from a defensive perspective is still open to interpretation leading to different results depending on who the referee and VAR official is)

    When Deeney was sent off last season against Arsenal - it was a clear and obvious error. It was not a sending off offence. We appealed the decision and the FA had a review using VAR where they had days as opposed to minutes to over rule the decision. They stuck with the original incorrect decision.

    Its no surprise that mistakes are being made in real time when reviewing decisions. The problem in this is that the refereeing team are governed by Mike Riley who is far more interested in protecting the reputation of referees ( and therefore himself, since he is their leader) than he is in making the game of football in the Premier League fair and just where the correct decisions are given regardless of exposing mistakes the referees have made.

    This is why Mike Riley would oppose an independent VAR team. If they have to correct the referee several times a game on major decisions it throws the spotlight on the referees professional standards. Who is in charge of Mike Riley then? Who reviews the way he runs the referee and VAR standards in this league?

    It is clear and obvious that VAR is not the problem but the team using it which is ironic really because VAR was introduced to correct their failings on pitch now they are failing regularly at making decisions off pitch as well.
     
  5. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    VAR should be watched by two fans, one of each team and a third independent viewer. I’m sure most sensible fans can agree on the most blatant offensive and if they can’t then you have the third person, preferably an ex pro with his head screwed on, like Vinnie Jones.

    However I think fans should do everything because it would just make everything better. Commentators should be fans, VAR should be done by fans, pundits should be fans, MOTD should be hosted by fans etc.
     
  6. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Do sky still do the alternative fan commentary? Or did they bin it because it was ****.

    Clubs should get 2 reviews a season retained on successful VAR review. If they burn them off arguing about if the opposition were a finger nail offside then they cant review anything for the season.
     
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Deeney’s red card, whilst contentious, was not a clear and obvious error.
     
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  8. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    1. They're not being thick. They're simply trying to defend their own against the indefensible. Which is stupid. Or maybe it's 'thick'. Point conceded.

    2. You suggest, very objectively, that our first goal yesterday should have been disallowed by VAR (I disagree) but also still claim somewhere else or other (I can't be arsed with finding it again) that we're still 0-3 down on VAR decisions this season. What one hand giveth the other taketh away. Kindly keep a note of this incident for your ongoing records.

    3. The refs we have are the best for the job. Do you really, really think you could do a better job out there in front of the big crowd as opposed to being a keyboard warrior? Eh mate? Go on. Give it your best shot.

    4. VAR isn't a 'complete waste of time'. What utter drivel. It's getting all the offsides right. Once the refs' club stop trying to make out they're omnipotent beings (and you trying to hold them account that they should be) then we could probably all be able to move on to pleasant pastures new.
     
  9. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Complete rubbish. In what way is VAR 'desperate'? It's simply an attempt at accuracy using the assistance of modern technology. It is the way of 'improving refereeing standards' which you desire.

    We have a new thing. In its infancy. In some ways it's working and in other ways it isn't. Yet. Early days. Are you related to the luddites?
     
  10. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The implementation of VAR is desperate and incompetent. It isn’t working currently and is a farce. That’s not to say it couldn’t work well in the future.
     
  11. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    The problem is the corruption within the FA (tin foil hat). The referee’s, like any organization, have each other’s back and it’s more important to protect their decision than to say they were wrong. The more wrongs they have, the worse they look. That’s why there are all these silly little rules now coming out, it’s all about protection. The “clear and obvious error” is subjective so offers all the protection they need.

    Will Hughes was blatantly fouled in the build up to their first goal, does he get the ball, yes but after he has already made contact with Hughes, it was player first, then ball. However, in real time, it’s not a “clear and obvious error” from the ref.

    Until the corruption is sorted, the FA and refs will continue to protect themselves.

    VAR works, it’s the people that are using it that don’t.
     
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    The guy in the Times who was an ex ref said our 1st should have been disallowed but VAR wasn't to blame so they seem to be trying their best to protect the system and the officials at the same time..

    Basically they are too scared to over rule an on pitch official probably because said VAR ref will one day be the on field ref and might have a ref they over rule on VAR!

    Offsides are the only really clear cut issue VAR seems to work on going by some of the fouls and missed red cards we've seen.

    If Billy Sharp had just been given a yellow for his tackle v Southampton would VAR upgraded it to a red?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  13. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We won the ball back countless times in the second half in virtually the same way that Hughes was dispossessed.

    If that's a foul, then that's the sort of thing killing the game, not VAR.
     
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  14. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    No, the reason I hate VAR is that it’s ruining my experience of watching football live at the ground.
     
    Spoad likes this.
  15. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    How is it? It hasn't ruined mine.
     
  16. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    It is, there a Leicester One, an Arsenal one, another Arsenal one, a Newcastle one, need I say more!
     
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  17. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Cheated today. No other word for it. A really great away performance totally undermined by the ****s using VAR.
     
  18. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse First Team Captain

    yup. Pathetic.
     
  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Season tally is VAR decisions for 0; VAR decisions against 6.

    Not bad after 9 games.
     
  20. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Just seen the Burnley goal that was ruled out. That's an even worse decision than ours today, no chance was Evans clearing that.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  21. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Ridiculous decision to overturn Burnley's equaliser - even though Jonathan Moss specialises in clear and obvious errors.
     
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  22. Ekstranding

    Ekstranding Academy Graduate

    Doesn't matter if he's getting there or not, he's had his heels clipped, it's a foul. What I don't get is why that's enough of a 'clear and obvious' error and the foul on Deulofeu isn't. For me the one on Deulofeu is WAY more clear and obvious...
     
  23. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    As I’ve just said on another thread, they’re treating goals and penalty incidents completely differently for some reason.
     
  24. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    It's an accidental coming together that had no impact on where the ball went. It's not even a foul, let alone one that is a "clear and obvious error".
     
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  25. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Why don’t the EPL do the rugby TMO (TV match official) technique? It works well.

    Ref refers a decision to TMO.
    Ref asks questions about the relevant passage of play.
    TV camera in TMO studio shows all angles being replayed.
    TMO gives opinions and they discuss.
    Ref confirms and agrees decision.
    Ref calls captains and relevant players to him and explains decision and switches on mic to stadium speakers so the crowd simultaneously know wtf is going on.
    Play continues.
     
    Watford Gav likes this.
  26. What's really annoying, aside from us potentially going down, is that if we do get relegated I bet one billion pounds not one single pundit mentions these dodgy VAR calls. But if Liverpool lose the title due to maybe one slightly marginal decision over the entire season, it'll be the reason they lost the title and the FA will be pressurised into changing it.
     
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  27. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Half the problem is nobody seems to know what the procedure is in football. It seems to be;

    Decision is awarded.
    On field ref puts his finger in his ear.
    On field ref waves away players complaining who can't see his finger in his ear.
    VAR referee spins a roulette wheel. (Green is overturn the decision).
    Assistant VAR ref informs VAR ref to press the Red button as the ball has landed on red.
    On field ref puts both fingers in his ears and starts nodding.
    VAR ref has yellow and blue buttons and an overturn button locked by secret keycodes only he and the assistant VAR ref know.
    VAR in progress flashes up in stadium.
    VAR ref presses both yellow and blue buttons together.
    On field ref takes his fingers out his ears and restarts the game.
    VAR ref goes back to watching 8 out of 10 cats does countdown clips on youtube.
     
  28. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    That’s why today’s decisions went spuds way. Officials would be all over back page denying them points. Especially if they were the wrong decision come end of season losing out on top four.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  29. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    ‘Twas ever thus.
     
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  30. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Tbf there have been a lot of criticism about VAR regardless of team but it's more general if it's for a lesser side whereas it's highlighted as being unfair to one team or another in a big match .
     
  31. Roger Irrelevant

    Roger Irrelevant Reservist

    I think VAR disallowed the equaliser. Kavanagh misheard and gave the goal. Hence the NoGoal on the board. What has followed is a total cover up to protect Kavanagh and Hawkeye’s vested interest in VAR.
     
    Horace_goes_up_north likes this.
  32. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    VAR great idea but being used quite strangely in the EPL this first season.

    Only really helping the defending team by disallowing goals so far which is very negative and hopefully will be changed for next season.

    As far rough justice for us, I can accept the penalty shouts because they’ve not yet given a single penalty to any team so that’s not a Watford thing.

    However the 2 handball decisions leading to goals (Newcastle and spurs) as far as I’m aware we are the only team to be on the receiving end of those missed / incorrect calls, and that’s massively frustrating.

    I do wish our managers, players, club officials would come out and say something rather than being so diplomatic about it. Take the fine but make the point.
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    VAR is not working under it's current guise. Not surprisingly, while the rest of the world have this system in place and it's slick, the PGMOL have royally screwed it up.

    There is nothing wrong with VAR, it's how it is being used is the problem.

    Anyone could see using video evidence, that Deulofeu was fouled and a penalty should have been awarded. For some bizarre reason, PGMOL have taken the assumption that the on field official is ALWAYS correct, and will never intervene with VAR in a matter of judgment. This approach is totally flawed though. The biggest problem is the remit that referees should only look at the pitch-side monitor in the most extreme of circumstances. I do not think an pitch-side monitor has been used once in any of the games this season. That is wrong.

    The VAR official should NOT overrule the on-field official, but he should certainly tell him to look at the pitch-side monitor. I'm 99% certain, had Kavanaugh looked at this and seen what everyone else could see, he would have given a penalty. VAR is there to help referees so they get the correct decision, this in not the case.

    So far, even though referees are happy to give themselves a hearty slap on the back and claim it's all very good, it's been a unmitigated disaster.

    The only way to get correct decisions is for the on-field referee to look at the monitor for contentious decisions. That way he does not have the embarrassment of having another referee telling him to change his mind. He will be able to change his decision, and it will be for him to do so, thus not undermining him, which seems to be the primary concern for the PGMOL.
     
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The two handball decisions against us have really hit us hard as well. Both games we were leading 1-0 and both times it's led to an illegal equaliser being scored (under the new rules) and has directly cost us 4 points. In our position that's unforgivable and we are being let down by a very strange applying of the rules. Disallow all handball goals, unless it is against Watford. That HAS to be the rule, or else why has it happened to us TWICE? As you say, no one else has had this happen to them all season. The only two times a handball been missed by VAR has been against us.

    Frustrating is one word to use, but I'm never surprised when it goes against Watford. There has to be some type of underlying root cause for why we're so badly treated by officials....and it's been going on for years.
     
    EB Hornet likes this.
  35. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well I remember the head of officials at UEFA did pretty much say our FA were using the system wrongly .

    Also the Premier league said they didn't want to use on pitch screens as it took time and managers complained about injuries being caused due to players having to wait around ..

    Well that was Alan Pardew who said that so maybe should have ignored it!
     

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