Uber Spivs Take One Helluva Beating

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Moose, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    wfcmoog likes this.
  2. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Well worth buying the latest edition of Private Eye for "White Van Man Writes" a "self-employed" delivery driver.
     
    Cthulhu likes this.
  3. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Not sure I agree with this ruling.
    Uber are a broker who serve rides to drivers and manage payments. Drivers choose whether they work or not.
    Taken to it's logical conclusion do ebay employ it's professional sellers?
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  4. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    its
     
  5. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Good point. I want minimum wage for selling those ‘Walking with Dinosaur’ DVD’s in 2008.
     
    wimbornet likes this.
  6. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Never heard of that one. Is it a porn remake of the original?
     
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You are thinking of the Porking with Dinosaurs series.
     
  8. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Sadly, this will result in drivers losing their jobs.

    Drivers will get paid the minimum wage for logging on, sitting in their car until they log off, regardless of how many jobs they take, that is not a feasible way to run a business. Even their union leader said last night that Uber can still be profitable if they manage the drivers available at any particular time. Less drivers are inevitable and a smaller cut for each job is likely. Uber may even close down, and all jobs will be lost.

    In the wider employment world many workers who enjoy the freedom of being able to work flexible hours and get paid accordingly, as if they have their own business, will be possibly be denied this right by the ruling.

    But of course, tough titty, the GMB knows best and will speak for everyone.

    In the meantime the GMB will be seeking backdated compensation averaging about £10k for each driver (maybe 15,000 of them), even though the drivers knew what they were signing up for over the past years. The Law really is an ass sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  9. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Uber will quit the UK if they can't make it work under the new rules.
    Who wins?
    A few cabbies and minicab firms when Uber shuts.
    People wanting to buy a secondhand Prius.

    Who loses?
    Everyone who used them for cheap safe transport.
    Those that having a spare time job they controlled helped them make ends meet.
    The already stretched entertainment business when people decide it's just not worth going out for a few drinks (if we can ever do that anymore).

    This sets a big precedent. I don't see Uber being much different to any other electronic platform that sells peoples services. Ebay, Amazon Marketplace, Just Eat, Deliveroo etc. They can't be exempt from this ruling.
    I don't see this as ending here. It makes no sense at all.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  10. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Why aren’t you on piecemeal work then? Would you be happy with it where you work and if not what’s the difference?

    Maybe you could be paid simply for the time you do productive work and not when you are picking fights on here.
     
  11. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I was on it for almost 3 years where I worked for myself, by the hour, and didn't get any holiday or sick pay. Then when I started at HMRC in 2016, I preferred to stay on an hourly rate as a freelance rather than on a salary purely because of the flexibility it gave me. HMRC stopped that, though, and insisted on employing me.

    I've also asked to go freelance on an hourly rate at the DfE, but not allowed.

    So I've been there sunshine.

    So, instead of obsessing on me with your diversionary tactics, do you have any sympathy for the drivers that will lose their income due to this GMB union led legal challenge?
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  12. Was Not Was?
    Whatever happened to Was Not Was?
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  13. If the model that means we can get cheap taxis means drivers sitting idle in the hope of a couple of good spells and getting effectively £3 or £4 per hour then good riddance. If we have to go back to cab firms and pay a bit more so be it; those drivers for whom it is their sole income will get jobs with those firms; those Uber drivers for whom it is spare time cash and who share cars with 4 or 5 other drivers to cover rental costs and insurance will have to find something else to do.
     
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  14. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    They were not are.
     
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  15. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Ha ha.

    So you say;
    1) that when price increases are caused by union led legal action, then "so be it".
    2) that when job losses are caused by union led legal action the unfortunate drivers will "just have to find something better to do"

    ... even though they have had the ability to increase prices if people were willing to pay it or "find something better to do" if they wanted to, anyway.

    But if there are similar risks caused by a democratically consulted nation with brexit then you continue to fight it all the way as it will all "end your children's lives", etc, etc.

    The hypocrisy from leftie socialists is astounding.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Don’t know (shakes his head).
     
  17. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I have bad memories pre-Uber of getting ripped off by black cab drivers at the end of a night out, getting charged £100 for a 20 minute journey.

    Uber flipped things in favour of the consumer, truly equalising supply and demand - I need a cab, who wants my fair, is surely better than, you need a cab, how much are you prepared to pay?

    I’m struggling to think of any other product or service where technology is deliberately blocked from helping the consumer from getting a better deal?
     
    Lloyd, iamofwfc, Jumbolina and 4 others like this.
  18. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Bingo. The model worked perfectly. The black cab system is prehistoric and an absolute rip off, especially as it's often people's first impressions of London. I have many many horror stories of black cab and private cab trips but absolutely none using Uber. It's fantastic.

    However, a couple of quid on future trips is still going to be much cheaper than alternatives.
     
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  19. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Of course I have sympathy with them. That’s why they shouldn’t be ripped off.

    Your situation is not at all comparable. You need to look at the judgement and recognise that Uber was taking all the benefits of being an employer without any of the responsibilities. Those fall on the taxpayer when many Uber drivers also have to recieve benefits.

    The union is consulting with its members now about the type of arrangements they want. More than Uber ever has.

    These disruptive companies are essentially anti-Democratic and irresponsible. We need to get them under democratic control for their taxes and employment practices. Use technology to do things differently for sure, but don’t make every worker insecure, powerless and dependent.
     
    WatfordÉire likes this.
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The Pharoahs were fantastic at organising labour too. Fact is, you may pay cheaply at source, but you pay again in lost taxes and benefits paid.

    Uber is the thin end of the wedge. If taxi drivers, why not every other non-management worker? Is this what we want the next generation to inherit?

    James Farrar, the co-lead claimant and general secretary of the App Drivers and Couriers union, said: “This ruling will fundamentally reorder the gig economy and bring an end to rife exploitation of workers by means of algorithmic and contract trickery. Uber drivers are cruelly sold a false dream of endless flexibility and entrepreneurial freedom.
    “The reality has been illegally low pay, dangerously long hours and intense digital surveillance. I am delighted that workers at last have some remedy because of this ruling, but the government must urgently strengthen the law so that gig workers may also have access to sick pay and protection from unfair dismissal.”
     
  21. Legends

    Legends Reservist

    The world is being run by automation, you just have to look at consumers Retail habits to see that.
    I can see within at least 15 years, self driving cars and then what for taxi drivers?
    I just see this as fuel to fire for companies like uber for that investment.
    This ruling sounds like a short term gain with a long term pain.
     
  22. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Correct. I will stand In a queue at a supermarket rather than use a self service till which is taking someone's job .
     
    Keighley likes this.
  23. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Precisely.

    Plus I am completely incapable of using the self service without ******* something up.
     
  24. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Shush !
     
    Keighley likes this.
  25. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    See, I use the self scan as you walk around. Putting shopping into basket/trolley, taking it out again to be scanned, then putting it back in to bags seems like a lot of pointless extra work to me. Scan it and put it straight into your own bag.
     
  26. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Well the last survey I saw, albeit for the US in 2018, was that about 75% of Uber drivers whether they were full time, or part time, wanted to remain as contractors, whilst 20% wanted to be employees.

    But of course, you and your mates in the union know better and can speak for them all, because you know better. A bit late for your union to start consulting with the members as to what working arrangements they want, after just removing their choice, isn't it?

    No wonder Uber will now put extra focus on driverless cars.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  27. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    What about the black cab drivers who spend all day golfing and all summer in their Spanish 2nd houses? Isn't something amiss between them and the Uber drivers!
     
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  28. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    This will have many implications for the gig industry in general and it will benefit the few and hinder the many. I know a couple of people who do Uber work, pre-Covid a couple of Friday and Saturday evenings per month was a good supplement to their day jobs. I imagine a lot of people who do work the gig industry are happy that they can work when they want and use it primarily to give them an little extra income. Yet on the other hand I guess there are plenty of people who do rely on these jobs as their primary income.

    The ruling is wrong as it implies one-size-fits-all, when clearly it doesn't in this case. I think some halfway solution would be better where there are those who can be employed directly by Uber and those who just want to work on their own terms, I don't know the answer.
     
    hornmeister, FromDiv4 and iamofwfc like this.
  29. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Interesting Private Eye gig economy piece on van drivers.

    BE1259C2-7B7A-4F80-9FF7-96A8FA78C902.jpeg
     
  30. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    When you open these threads, you just know you're going to find @hornmeister and @zztop aligning themselves with the rich and powerful. Always firmly behind and arguing on behalf of the corporations, landlords, bosses and bankers. Never ever with the humble poor, the oppressed or the worker. Never able to see the side of the common man. Always ready to argue the case for the exploiter.

    Why is that, do you think? Why no compassion for us underclassers?
     
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  31. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Few will be doing that this year. Maybe it needs reform. But it's odd that usually when some boss has taken £10m from a utility company ripping off consumers, the likes of @zztop will rush to defend them.
     
  32. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    I always feel guilty about scanning and posting anything recent from Private Eye. It is the last bastion of campaigning/investigative journalism and the only national publication to cover local government... A subscription is only £34 a year.
     
  33. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    How many Uber drivers are full time? How many black cab drivers do it part time (cab share)? How dare working class people have access to well-paid employment*.

    *(C) Bob Crowe.
     
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    There's probably a middle ground to be struck between Uber's voracious money-making, human crushing business approach and the common man who actually quite likes the flexibility of a zero hours working arrangement. Of course, when governments fail to legislate and vacate the playing field completely, the courts are forced to step up. Hence a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
     
  35. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I'm aligning myself with the "common man" Uber drivers who want to work for themselves, instead for the rich and powerful, but have now been denied the choice by the Unions. It is the Unions that are the oppressors by denying choice to the common man.

    Try getting your facts right.
     

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