Transfers section

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by hornmeister, Jan 31, 2017.

  1. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    The Wilmot affair is not bizarre. Trying to make unfavourable comparisons between him and Maguire are, however.

    Wilmot is 19 and has played 1800 minutes of first team football (about 20 games) - half of which as a CB in League Two, the rest generally either in Serie A in a back three, or for us in the FA Cup or the league as a DM. At the same age Maguire had only had one full season of first team football, which was for Sheffield Utd in League One. He was stuck in League One with Utd until Hull signed him when he was 21 and they were in the Premier League, however, even at 21 Hull only gave him 3 Premier League appearances in the entire season, and he spent the rest of the season on loan back in the Championship with Wigan. Hull only started using him regularly back when they were relegated in the Championship and Maguire was 22.

    I'm not convinced that Wilmot has the physical attributes to make it as a regular CB at the top level. However, to say that he's not yet been given enough playing opportunities one way or another is simply wrong.

    Also, CB is a very demanding position and one of the most difficult for a young player to break in to, which might also be one of the reasons why he's being used there at the moment rather than CB (less pressure).

    In fact, Wilmot was the youngest player in the Premier League classified as a CB to play any minutes last season (even if it was only 28). Furthermore, the youngest CB in the PL to play more than Wilmot last season was Juan Foyth at Spurs, who is a full 2 years older and still just played 900 minutes.

    Even in the Championship, there was only one CB the same age as Wilmot who played regularly, and that was Trevoh Chalobah on loan at Ipswich from Chelsea. who played the equivalent of 37 games. Other than him, you have to jump another 2 years up to get another, Fikayo Tomori, another Chelsea loanee at Derby.

    At this stage in Wilmot's career, even playing regularly on loan at a mid-table Championship club might be a stretch (whether at CB or DM). If he can, it might be worth trying, but he still might not even be ready for that.
     
  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    One half decent season and he goes for £30m! There are times when I'm glad we are a bit more frugal because that is lunacy
     
  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    It would be lunacy for us but it's not for them. If they want him and it costs them £30m, £40m, £50m,..... the cost really doesn't matter a jot to their owners. Especially if they are about to pick up c£90m by selling Maguire.
     
  4. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Might have been best for Wilmot, then, not to come to WFC.

    Better to develop his game as a perm at a lower level for a couple more years.

    Same could apply to all the Chelsea kids who are shopped out on loan when still, essentially, children.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  5. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    £30m for Perez is lunacy no matter who is spending the money
     
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Not if the £30m means nothing to the buyer and they really want him. They might be stupid to want him but if Maguire is worth £90m why can't Perez, who shone at prem level last season, be worth a third of that ?
     
    Ray Knight likes this.
  7. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    It remains to be seen. Wilmot's probably been better served for the time being learning here though as opposed to having stayed all the way down in League Two. He at least has now had some exposure to what would be expected of him to be a regular at a top European league, even if he still needs a bit more time and experience elsewhere before he can eventually get there.

    And loads of the Chelsea kids still end up having good careers, whether with Chelsea or elsewhere.

    Most players don't start coming in to their prime until about 23. Until then, there doesn't appeared to be a cut-and-dry, or one-size-fits-all approach which could be said to definitely work best for their footballing education leading up to that point - there are loads of top level players that spent most of their formative years playing regularly on permanent contracts in the lower leagues (e.g. Maguire), likewise there are loads that spent their formative years contracted with a top club but then with lots of random, intermittent loans and appearances for different teams in lesser leagues (e.g. Kane).

    (Though youth players at the big clubs that then go on loan, will typically be on a higher wage during that process than equivalent players who might be permanently based at such clubs)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  8. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    True.

    I suppose what I dislike is stockpiling. Treating kids as assets, curbing their playing time significantly & leaving many to drift out of the game in their early 20s.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    As I indicated it's questionable in the developmental stage whether it's preferable for a player to play less frequently at a higher level while training with better players, than to be playing more frequently at a lower level with lesser players - top players have risen via both routes.

    I also don't have a problem with stockpiling - all players are assets for their clubs, regardless of whether they take more streamlined or more scattergun approaches to trying to find, invest in, and develop talent. Football is pretty meritocratic. Those that are destined to make it typically tend to eventually, one way or another. Players worthy of being given chances will get them should they wish.

    I don't see how stockpiling leaves many to drift out of the game in their early 20s in a way that's any different to what happens to loads of players naturally/inherently anyway? Examples? It's something that happens inevitably as a result of the number of youth players trying to make it relative to the far smaller number of professional spots at the top level which are available.
     
  10. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Its a win win situation for Wilmott at the moment he is on a contract that is probably 10 times more money than he was earning before (just my guess) he is being coached by premier league coaches, if he has the talent, motivation and desire he will make it and we will have a player playing for us for many years (or he will be sold to another club further up the chain) and we and him will both benefit!

    However if he doesn't have the attributes mentioned above he will go back to a league 1 or 2 team with financially a good start for one so young and future thoughts of what might have been!
     
  11. I promised myself I wouldn't get too involved in watching the transfer window this year after the last 3 seasons.

    And yet I find myself refreshing NewsNow and this transfer sub at least 40 times a day.
     
  12. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK First Year Pro

    Have you thought of getting a hobby?
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  13. Eating wotsits and watching porn is unfortunately frowned upon at work.
     
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Are they okay if you separate the two pursuits rather than doing them at the same time?
     
  15. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I presume those standing next to you at the urinals have noticed your orange Johnson and have told your boss?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    There really is no time for another "hobby" to run alongside this forum. You're either in or you're out and WFCForums is not a "part-time" commitment. I may need to pack in my job soon as I find it is beginning to interfere.
     
    Teide1 and Sort of OK like this.
  17. You know what, I never actually asked.
     
  18. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK First Year Pro

    Should be OK in your own time though.

    Great tip though thanks, enjoying a delicious cheesy snack and burning calories while do so, could be chapter one of the diet book for boys.
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  19. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Picked Onion Monster Munch were a more appropriate snack until they reduced the size. Less issue with determining the source of the cheese smell also.
     
  20. Just been casually watching the sky sports news right hand updates and other teams transfer news. Aren't many teams doing much.

    Burnley and Brighton are no stronger than last year.

    Bournemouth not much stronger but seem to be selling players for a decent amount.

    Palace are weaker at present but do have money to spend. Zaha's movement is pretty key.

    Newcastle seem drastically weaker without the manager and a couple of decent players going.

    3 teams coming up are buying but barely prem standard players.

    A couple of weeks to go yet but nothing to seem too worried about from the teams below us.
     
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    That is us cursed then !

    But yes it has been quiet generally - teams worried about Brexit maybe ?

    The 3 promoted teams have done businesses differently..

    Wonder which way will work ....
     
  22. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    This is how I see it too. I think Everton, Leicester, Wolves and West Ham have now moved away from us. Chelsea will almost certainly be weaker than last year though.

    We are in a mini league of 10 clubs. Our league consists of Bournemouth, Crystal Palace. Burnley, Brighton, Newcastle, Norwich, Southampton, Aston Villa, Sheff Utd and Watford of course.

    All the rest are beyond us, IMO. Instead of the top 6 and the rest, it's going to be top 10 and bottom 10.
     
    Jumbolina and Teide1 like this.
  23. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Any news on Villa?
     
  24. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    The man at ESSO said they have taken to advertising for players in the local paper and LinkedIn to try to drum up some candidates. Looking bleak for them.
     
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    To be fair to Brighton, they have added Trossard who is highly rated and a Belgian International and Matt Clarke who was a solid lower league CB who it’s believed could be PL standard (we should have been interested IMO) - plus many of their bigger signings last summer were never played or integrated well by Hughton. They are a decent manager and striker away I think. Potter may be one of those things but a striker still required...

    But as HB1 has said, the clubs that were in and around us are spending big and likely to move away from us.

    Predictions are stupid when there’s still likely lots of business to be done - but if I had to, I’d say Sheff Utd, Newcastle and Palace look in most danger to me.
     
  26. Villa have the next Messiah in Grealish so should be challenging Man city for the title.
     
  27. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Does Brighton’s 20m winger not improve them? Their fans also complain that Hughton failed to integrate a number of last summer’s signings so I think they may be a lot better this year.

    Villa have done well I think. Saints have spent heavily.

    The rest I agree haven’t done too much although I like that Bournemouth continue to identify home grown younger players from the lower leagues. Wilmot and Hughes aside, I’ve no idea why we don’t do this - the homegrowns only need to perform adequately and their value seems to triple!
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  28. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK First Year Pro

    20190722_175442 (1).jpg Quick transfer activity update:

    I was at the training ground today and can confirm that during the entire 30 seconds or so I was in traffic there was no activity, nobody arrived and nobody left. Just thought I'd share my first hand, on the spot, knowledge for the period I was there.

    In more exciting news it was flying ant day in the works car park today, certainly added an edge to the afternoon running the gauntlet with those little blighters I can tell you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I am surprised no-one from security came out to escort you away!
     
  30. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK First Year Pro

    They were too busy huddled round an S500 Merc with blacked out windows, anyone could have snuck in!

    Anyway nobody would have seen through my cunning disguise of fat, bored middle aged man stuck in traffic.
     
  31. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    How much for the tumble weed? Does it have an agent?
     
  33. The Recluse

    The Recluse Academy Graduate

    Leandro Paiva was only on trial in the end.

    img_920x518$2019_07_02_17_51_57_1570210.jpg
     
  34. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Reservist

    Looks fast. He’s left burn marks in the road. This is exactly the winger we have been looking for. Gino has done it again. Even has the perfect hairstyle.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Villa thought they were close with this one until all those players who didn’t want to join them suddenly did. Then they lost interest in this deal....
     
    Cthulhu likes this.

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