Don’t get me wrong, the whole “big club” thing is nonsense. Unfortunately that’s the world that football fans live in. So I laugh at Forest fans and co when they claim to still be a big club, historically, yes. Recently not a chance. You can’t claim to be a big club when you’ve spent nearly quarter of a century outside of the top division. Are watford more of a Prem team than Forest, Derby, Sheff Weds, yes they are. We’ve spent more time in the Prem than any three of those teams in the past 20 years. So when fans of other clubs want to throw around the whole “big club” statement, facts tell us otherwise. Historically big, recently, not bigger than us. I’m glad we have an owner that wants to bounce back immediately. Is he risking it financially, yes. At least he’s going for it.
I think anyone who thinks we’ll suddenly spend more on defenders in the championship than we did in the PL are living in cloud cuckoo land. Least not because our defensive record wasn’t any worse than a lot of mid table clubs, so if you think the owners actually see it as a problem now we’re one league lower you’re probably in for a big disappointment.
Correct. And we already have significant debt even before our revenues halve. You shouldn't base your financial strategy wholly banking on promotion. By all means target promotion, we'd be foolish not to, but we have to have a plan to survive when our income falls off a cliff at the end of parachute payments if we aren't in the prem. We can't have the level of debt we have now, or higher, without the income to be able to repay it unless the plan is to then put the club into administration.
You're confusing the terms "big club" and "successful club". They are bigger, we've been more successful. Or would you claim we are a "bigger" club than Leeds ?
Yes.....this is very obvious, but we are not we're not stretched beyond our limits though. We have players who will wipe out the debt at a stroke if we sell. Clubs that stretch beyond their limits are the ones that go bust or into administration. We are not in that position. A club like Leeds have done very well to get out of the Championship after 16 years of being in it. When you're a club that's been in the Championship or lower, for such a long time, it's extremely difficult to compete with those relegated Premier League clubs. In any one year you have 9 clubs all on different levels of parachute payments. It's difficult to compete against clubs with better finances. Right now we are financially a big fish in the Championship, but we will only be in that position for this season. This is why it has to count. If we don't go up this season, then we would have to sell all our remaining 'star' players, in order to service debt and to get in line with the FFP rules. This is why it's so important to bounce back in season 1. After that, you begin to melt into the Championship and all your advantage from being a Premier League club begins to disappear. You will have to start from scratch in line with all the other clubs in the Championship and trying to compete against the three newly relegated Premier League clubs, with their parachute payments.
Yes ......this is very obvious. My only issue with the OP was the statement that Gino was banking on being promoted. You can't bank on getting promoted.
You are only considering income = better finances and are forgetting costs. The relegated clubs are having to cope with reducing their costs at the same rate their income is reducing, ie by 50% and then further. There are more clubs in the bottom half of the champ relegated from the prem in the last few seasons than in the top half of the champ for this reason. Plus of course the likes of sunderland and ipswich in Div 1. All clubs who couldn't manage a concerted promotion push at the same time as slashing their cost base and finding homes for demotivated players on massive salaries who want to move on but can't find takers at the right price. Its shocking that a club of Leeds size with their FFP advantage in the champ too so many years to get promoted.
It's not forgotten. Clearly players will have to be sold, but how many is the balance they have to get right. Sell too many and you create a situation where other players want out. They will only stay if ambition is shown. So you cannot sell too many players, but everyone understands some need to be sold....but of course they can only be sold once. Selling players is the one way Watford can to meet the financial requirements of those remaining. It is income generated from within the club and meets the FFP rules. We do have 2 or 3 high ticket players we could sell, which would bridge the gap in income, but this will only work for one season. We have an advantage, where we can trim the squad, but still maintain something stronger than our competitors. If we do not go up this season, then we will have to sell a lot of players and pretty much start from scratch at that point.
Just been speaking to a Derby fan and he was raving about Matt Clarke from Brighton. He won player of the season at Derby. Now Brighton have bought yet another CB and maybe White returning from Leeds ,Clarke is going to be pushed further down the order. Anyone seen him play? He did say he wasn't the quickest but is a very solid Championship CB.
Just to remind everyone of some research I did a while ago: In the last 20 years (2000-2019) of the 60 relegations from the PL, 13 clubs have been promoted back in the following season (22%). Fulham, of course, still have the chance to do it this year but these figures suggest a less than even chance of any given relegated side bouncing straight back, despite their financial advantage. The corresponding figure for clubs getting relegated the season following their promotion to the PL is 20 out of 60 (33%). So you would expect one promoted side to get relegated each season and this year it was Norwich.
Last 10 years we have been a bigger club than Leeds, unless you're one of them ****s who judges it on how many fans they average a game. Not that impressive when its a one club city with a population of half a million. Of course, now they've finally won promotion they could spend a number of years in the Premier League and even perhaps win silverware, which will result in them becoming a bigger club. However, more than likely they will get relegated after one season and we will stay a bigger club.
This is so silly. People need to recalibrate their expectations. We are not going to be signing £15m right backs no matter what outgoings we have. We are going to need to urgently cut costs - players like Kiko who have been fine but hardly set the world alight are not going to bring in big fees (£5-7m looks optimistic to me) because it's not just the transfer fee that's important, it's anything we can save on wages too.
It's ...."those ****s".... You do understand what the word "big" means don't you ? In what way does the fact that we were in a league above them make us "bigger" when our gates have been approx 50% of theirs despite being a league higher ? We have been more successful but we are not bigger. Or do you think a club's size is just determined by the order that they appear in the league tables that season and therefore Wycombe Wanderers are a bigger club than Sunderland this coming season ?
Hopefully a few excellent loans from the prem, a couple of our youth players coming through and the odd low fee/end of contract signing like the chap from WHU (if he signs !). But we do need to get cracking......
My transfer suggestion is to send over three Udinese bods on the same day to recreate the feel of 12/13. Doesn't matter if they're not any good, will give us all a boost in these dark times as we try to work out the next Abdi from the next Steve Leo Beleck. We've been relegated for eight days now, we need incomings and outgoings, plus a new man in charge.
QPR REJECT PALACE'S EZE BID Crystal Palace have had a bid in excess of £12m rejected by QPR for Eberechi Eze. West Ham are also interested in the forward. Safe to say he’s probably going to be sold for near £20mil. Again these prices help us when it comes to selling our players. Is Deulofeu really only worth £5mil more than Eze, I don’t think so, he's worth much more.
Eze would be a good buy for us. You would need to give him the wages to consider another year in the Championship, but unlike elsewhere we can say he would be a first choice and not a back up. How we generate the money to fund a £20M purchase is of course quite a different matter
Free of charge? There'll be a tribunal fee there somewhere Will be off to a club in the Premier League, West Ham in the driving seat as they have Hugill to offer as a makeweight
I am sure you are right, but West Ham want him as a squad player, and don’t have the money until they sell players (they spent the summer budget in January). So he may go to Palace. But if neither can say he will be first choice, you never know.
Even if we had £20m to spend on one player, which we won't, it certainly shouldn't be prioritised on someone who plays in his position over the obvious positions of weakness.
In case we end up selling Sarr then one decent possible replacement could be Tyrese Campbell at Stoke. 20 years-old, son of Kevin, with a few England youth caps. Didn't break through until the mid-way point of the season and Stoke fans credit him with helping to turn their season around. Left-footed, but can also use his right, his best position is the right-sided attacker in a front three but can also play CF. He scored 9 goals (1 of which a penalty) in just 1617 minutes last season (1 non-pen goal per 202 minutes). He also had 2 assists. He might be a useful option even if we keep Sarr and play more of a 4-4-2 formation, as we currently lack players capable of playing as right-sided strikers. Stoke fans think he's destined eventually for the PL, but are also concerned Muff might swoop for him. £10mil could do it. Has a touch of Adama Traore about him.
I like the look of this fella. The controlled lob from outside the box was beautifully executed. Direct, pace and touch. What's not to like from the little video.
Now that Liverpool have signed their back up LB, and dropped their interest in Harry Pickering. We should be in for him, mentioned him earlier in this thread. A very capable LB, that will be only get better. His contract runs out next year, so if Crewe can’t get him to extend, they will look to sell this window. Right now we have Masina and Estupiñán. Can’t see us keeping Estupiñán. So before someone else snatched Pickering up on the cheap we should be in for him.
Apparently Brighton are looking to sell Shane Duffy, Celtic are supposedly interested though, he is from Derry and plays for The Republic of Ireland so will more than likely be a Celtic fan but would be just what we need.
Shame he has the attributes that we need and would give us some leadership, he will go to Celtic or West Brom if they are really interested in him though unfortunately.
Wouldn’t want Gibson. It must be fair to say we were all envious of the application and work rate Burnley players show, if not of their brand of football? Yet after Gibson was signed for a decent fee and wasn’t fancied, he didn’t show the same attitude as you expect from his teammates. Raises big question marks. I want Watford to sign some promising, young players from lower leagues like they did with Wilmot (who should definitely be starting this season).
