There is no hope if having seen it god knows how many times he thinks that it hits his chest. I'm not a doctor but I'm fairly sure a chest does not have an elbow
At first I thought it was his shoulder but on replay you could see he actually moved his upper arm to meet the ball- yes near the shoulder but it was deliberate so should not have been allowed. And yes, of course it was a penalty. But you rarely get decisions going for you away to top 6 clubs do you?
What it does show is that they all stick together. The attitude is all wrong. Why can't they just be honest FFS. In the past referees had the excuse of missing things in real time, but they don't have that excuse anymore, but still get it wrong consistently and they will go to great lengths to cover it up. This is a massive problem. There are far too many inexperienced officials doing the job. The quality is low and their honesty questionable.
They way it should work is simple. The blokes in the central office make the easy calls. Anything close, or something like reviewing a red card, should be referred back to the centre ref on the pitch. Have him walk over and take a look. The way they run it now is not designed to either get the calls right or to minimise disruption to the game. It's to provide cover for the refs. I understand that the central office people may not want to embarass their peers by overruling them, but the answer is simple - tell them "You may have got that wrong, go have a look and see if it changes your mind".
I'm sure you are absolutely right about the poor finishing. The key word is 'panic'. Both Pereyra and Deleufeu have more than enough skill to place the ball accurately. But the mist of panic clouds their judgement at the vital moments. I think that could be changed - time for some sophisticated coaching/psychology, I think; (In fact it was time a long time ago). It's partly a mental vicious circle - the more you miss, the more you panic. Even top strikers will acknowledge that it happens to them. The one striker we have who appears to take the right approach is Gray. Unfortunately he has nowhere near the right amount of skill. I have hopes of Wellbeck coming good at some point in the season, but we're already seeing how physically fragile he is. Sarr - who knows? The one goal he scored for us was taken with aplomb. But it was against a First Division side. Even Deeney chickens out of shooting these days, and has for some time.
Well, playing defensively against Spurs we generated more good chances than they did. I understand your logic and anyway I prefer exciting, attacking football but, in top-flight professional football you cannot continue to concede two goals a game and stay in the top flight. We effectively have been walking onto the pitch with a two goal handicap and other teams know this. Playing against Spurs away we did it dead-on right, given the circumstances. Spurs were desperate to beat us and fell into the trap (only VAR and poor finishing covered their ignominy). Whether or not this works against Bournemouth at Vic Rd is a good question. We shall soon see because, I think, Flores will not change it too much, if for no other reason than we need the pre-season-type practice (which the Sheff Utd game largely was, of course). Bournemouth may well be happy with a point themselves. I have never idolised Flores but I have to say I think he is getting about as right as could be, given the circumstances.
Like I said previously, the defensive system for away games or against high-profile/in-form opposition at home is acceptable. When we play the weaker sides we've got to take on and try to beat them. For me, the way we set up against Sheffield United was totally wrong. The same system for Spurs away was good to use. If we do this against Bournemouth, we don't deserve anything more than 0-0. We've got to at least try to win the home games. We've already blown the Brighton, Newcastle and Sheff Utd games. These winnable looking games will soon run out. We need around 11 or 12 wins per season to avoid the drop. It may be a little less of course, but Cardiff won 10 and still were relegated last season. We need wins, but being conservative and timid at home, will not be the right ploy to earn victories....IMO.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but how can you spend 100's of millions on a stadium where the front 11 rows still get wet when it rains? I understand this can happen when the wind is strong, but it was coming almost straight down on Saturday and we were still getting wet.
A real shame. We were 4 minutes (and a wrong VAR decision) away from the perfect away performance. We defended brilliantly as a team, with some great standout performances from Dawson & Kabasele in particular. We restricted a Champions League finalist only a few months ago to 2 shots on target all game (one of which was the goal that shouldn't have stood). Didn't think we'd be saying that after our 8-0 mauling by Citeh. Quique has to take huge credit for how he's set us up and how he's drilled the players since the Citeh game. We look a lot more solid defensively and with games coming up against Bournemouth, Norwich, Burnley and Southampton we should be looking to keep clean sheets. We have more than enough quality in our midfield and attack to score goals and with a little bit more composure and care (not to mention luck) we'd have scored 3 or 4 on Saturday. QSF has given us a base to build on now. Follow this up with a win next week against Bournemouth and the confidence starts to come flooding back. Hopefully Saturday's performance will give us added confidence now anyway. Prodl, Capoue, Deeney & Quina all to feature at some point soon as well as Sarr who hasn't even begun his career here yet. A lot happier than I was before the Sheff Utd game. We should be sat here talking about two very good wins and being 17th/18th going into this weekend. Very frustrating but at the same time we're on the right path. All credit to QSF and Austin.
We said exactly the same on Saturday. In general I was a little underwhelmed by the stadium, perhaps because of the hype. I preferred the internal design to Arsenal because of the steeper stands and the big ‘end’ is impressive, but it was thousands of people just sitting there - no flags, banners or anything. To make it work properly they need to concentrate the ‘loud’ fans together in the end. Of course Spurs are not playing well and were only up against ‘little Watford’, so perhaps the atmosphere would have been better on another occasion. We saw a number of, presumably, Koreans who had come to see Son but the home fans struck me as largely a ‘local’ crowd, unlike the plethora of tourists you find at the likes of Liverpool. The external look of the stadium is not as impressive as Arsenal with its walkways. I also thought the concourse was unremarkable, although smart because it’s new, and I saw nothing there that would make me spend more time there before or after the game as has been suggested. Maybe the home concourses are more comfortable. Finally a word on getting there and away. We drove across Herts to get a train heading south from Broxbourne into Northumberland Park where there was a fast-moving queue along walkways to exit the stadium. We headed straight back there after the final whistle and the queue for the northbound platform was short and the crowd control good. I would definitely go that way again, rather than going into London; we were home by 6pm.
From WFC Site Saturdays game was only the third time since we last gained promotion that we had taken anything from the home of one of the top 6! The only other occasions the team has avoided defeat at one of the top six clubs were at Chelsea under Quique Sánchez Flores in December 2015 and then when Walter Mazzarri pulled off a stunning win at the Emirates in early 2017.
Yes, last time I got rained-on like that was at the Goldstone Ground. The roof simply didn't come out far enough and was a trillion feet above me. All the curvy, wavy lines, the turgid trend-following grey and the up-market fixtures and fittings and the customer gets wet from the rain. Plus I still was eating their fish and chips with the food balanced on a narrow ledge next to the waste bins, just like anywhere-else-club. Flattering to deceive, a bit like the team they put out.
I could be wrong but I don’t ever remember a team at the wrong end of the Premier league already a goal up at a top six ground being granted a penalty, it’s just not done!
I understand where you’re coming from, but surely there’s an argument to be made that we wouldn’t have performed as well at Spurs, if we hadn’t already used and worked on that same system for the Sheff Utd game. Defensive organization comes in part from familiarity, especially when playing a system we’ve not used regularly with this group of players. Consistency also comes from familiarity, rather than chopping and changing formations from week to week. I’d argue that we showed an improvement in our attacking play against Spurs, without sacrificing any of the defensive solidity evident against Sheff Utd, so again, I’d say that Quique was justified in picking his system and beginning to implement the plan he feels will see us safe. Equally, there’s zero evidence to suggest that playing a more adventurous system against Sheff Utd would have brought 3 points. You only have to look at our form over the last 30 odd games to see that.
I don't go with that point. We had to play it the first time at some point, but why sacrifice a winnable game? Could have played it for the first time at Spurs. Would have made perfect sense to do that, as it's a game to experiment with it being a top six side away. So we draw with Sheff U and Spurs, but we'd have been better off beating Sheff U and losing to Spurs.....that's the reality. Draws are meaningless to us. We're creating a game plan designed for 0-0, so when we actually do draw, no one can complain, because we're not looking to win. We're looking to keep the score down. This is the philosphy. I've seen nothing in the results to prove otherwise. Sure, we'll get the odd 1-0 win if we play it perfectly, but it's not a system that is likely to string a run of wins together, and that is the problem. There are many pitfalls playing this way, the biggest being, how do we cope with conceding the first goal? How would we wrestle the game back? Playing this way is only any good if you take the lead. If you concede first, you're shafted.
Sarr and Gray on the bench. If we go 1 down, recently we've then gone 2 down by persevering. I agree we need to have a method of taking the game to opponents but the clear and obvious issue Gracia left was a sieve of a defence. There was no point throwing our kitchen sink at Sheff Utd if we leave holes at the back and concede 2 or 3.
So the game plan changes if we concede early and we use up two subs? You cannot play in a way that has to be completed changed if we let in a goal. That's just crazy. It is a good system for away and for certain home games, but you've got to attack the weaker teams, especially at home. That's the only way we're going to get out of this mess. It still makes me shudder to think we played 5 at the back, a keeper and a DMF, to Sheff Utd at home.
Like Sarr, he's been bought as an investment rather than to actually play for us. We buy, park in the reserves or overseas, and then sell for 15% higher due to the general inflation in the player market. Much of the media don't even seem to know he belongs to us. #pozzomodel.
Again, you’re completely ignoring all previous evidence that suggests when we have tried to play a more open game, we lose, because we can’t defend. It’s easy to say we’d have been better off beating Sheff Utd, but the reality is, we hadn’t looked like beating anybody playing a more attacking game. I just don’t see where you’ve got the idea that if we’d lined up with an attacking game plan, we’d have beaten them, as though our hideously leaky defence would suddenly be solid, and our misfiring strikers would suddenly start taking chances. There’s pretty much zero evidence to support your belief, and a mountain of evidence that would suggest they’d ravage us on the counter attack.
I think youve misunderstood me rather than being daft. Ever heard the expression "learn to walk before you run"? Theres nothing more complicated than that. In 3 months against a weaker team at home we'll probably have 2 or 3 different style plans. Of course the gameplan and tactics change dependant on the scoreline - but also the time on the clock its not crazy at all! If we're 1 down after 10 minutes we dont trow 4 forward on, we stay the same defensive shape (in order to not throw away a 2nd). Then maybe become more progressive as time is ticking in the second half. And take more and more risks to get back into the game as it approaches 90 minutes.. Including attacking subs.
It's a difference of opinion. There is no evidence to say this ultra-defensive formation works either, as we've not won by playing it. If you think lining up so defensively against Sheff Utd at home was a good thing then I'll never agree with this point. It had 0-0 written all over it and that's exactly what happened. It's horses for courses. You need to pick the best formation to win the game. Use it at Spurs and I have no problem. Spurs have a lot of threats and to nullify that and try to catch them on the break was the right thing to do. Sheffield United don't have anywhere near the kind of attacking weaponry as Spurs. If we do not feel we can beat Sheff Utd at home, and use a formation that indicates we are scared to death of them, then we have absolutely no hope of picking up the wins needed to stay in this division.
Fundamentally I do not have a big problem with this 5 at the back, 2 DMF and a keeper. 7 or 8 defensive minded players.....fair enough. But you've got to use it in the right games. You should not be using it against every single opponent, especially at home. Home form is what will relegate or keep us in the league. We HAVE TO be more offensive especially against the perceived weaker sides. We're not going to win many games, nor should we, by being ultra-defensive. We're at the stage were we need to be bold and go for it. The time for baby-steps has gone. We are 9 games into the season now and we're one defeat away from being totally cut adrift. Faint heart never won fair maiden.
I agree. I’d much rather we’d have lined up like we did in the home games against Brighton and West Ham, where we defended with exceptional organization, and frequently threatened in the attacking third.
I dunno luke. Being at that match, I'd have said there was more chance of an asteroid hitting the stadium at half time than that Sheff Utd team ravaging anything or mounting any sort of counter attack. They were blunter than a spoon.
I disagree. It's easy to be wise after the event, but had we lined up with this ultra-defensive formation against Brighton at home in the first game of the season, the coach would have been destroyed for doing that, especially had we lost 0-1 or only drew 0-0. There was nothing wrong with playing an attacking formation in these games. It was just poorly executed because the team was so underprepared. That's not a formation problem, it's something else entirely. It was down to complacency over pre-season and arrogance which made us feel we could just walk onto the pitch and roll them over. No one was crying out for an ultra-defensive formation when we were winning matches at the beginning of last season, for example.
I appreciate the fact you are sticking to your guns here but that statement is rubbish. You are suggesting we will probably lose but hopefully by not too many. You also keep mentioning Sheff Utd, well they looked very decent on the break last night and of course beat one of the top 6. I don't think we're in the position to look at ourselves and say we're better than you so we will go more attacking. The way you talk as it's as of we haven't created anything but actually we've had 3 clear cut chances vs Sheff Utd and and another 3 very good chances at Spurs. In both games we've not had a clear cut chance created against us. The system is almost working and is certainly working better than anything else we've tried. If and when the opposition score first which will happen at some point we could change the way we play but we will only find out if QSF does that when it happens. I'm aware that you didn't want QSF but as it stands he is doing ok and I have a little more hope right now
That's probably because we weren't conceding goals for fun. The fact is, we have been conceding on average two goals a game since about February time and have won just twice. That includes last season when we were prepared although coming in to the start of the season under prepared should have seen Gracia lose his job there and then. What you've said there is just stating the bleeding obvious
