This A Levels Carry On

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Relegation Certs, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    I've not really been following it.

    So the teachers have marked up all the kids grades to make them look like better teachers, but have been too obvious about it and have been rumbled by the statisticians? Is that it?
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  2. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think from what I’ve heard they’ve applied some algorithm that adjusts the grades given by the teachers to allow for the historical success of each school. So the good schools have got better grades and the worse schools have got lower grades, but I might be completely wrong on that.
     
  3. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Exams were cancelled and so grades had to be awarded. The Tories didn’t want results to be too different to normal years and so they asked the question who normally does well at this sort of thing and the answer was cripes! it’s our kids! huzaar!
     
    El distraído likes this.
  4. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    I think the problem with it was that the system did not account for brilliant pupils at schools needing improving or in poorer areas and idiots at good schools. I really feel for the A-Level students as it will leave many students in the lurch regarding universities, the GCSE students next week would have a lesser impact as most go on to A-Level or BTec at their existing school or local college, and I imagine that the vast majority will honour any conditional place.
     
  5. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    They just gave an example on the news where a girl got given a U in one subject (and I think A-C in her other two) even though she was predicted a B or a C, because she was ranked lowest in her class by her teachers and historically somebody from her school and equivalent class once got a U.
     
  6. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You can only marvel at the stupidity of such a system.

    There is, by the way, a long thread in this subject in the politics section.
     
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Classic. It’s the teachers’, the unions, everyone’s fault (even mine it seems), but not the Government, the DoE and Ofqual.

    You’ve just repeated the self-serving lie about teachers inflating grades by 15%. What you don’t take into account is that this year cannot be the same. Teachers cannot be asked to guess who will flunk, not turn up, have a family bereavement, get ill etc other than for serial non attenders.

    The fair way is to assume pupils will do their reasonable best. There is no way to factor in the ‘integrity of the system’ without unfairly disadvantaging the individuals in it. A one off hit where results were inflated would hurt almost no one and any school with grossly inflated marks could have had its results investigated by now.

    This is typical of the war against teachers. Their judgement and professionalism is casually impugned by individuals too lazy to consider the actual problem. This year is not the same and cannot be made to be the same. It’s inputs are wholly different.
     
    sydney_horn likes this.
  8. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    @zztop was there no impact assessment of the method?
     
  9. After the approach tanked spectacularly in Scotland I’m really surprised the gov carried on for England. They should have found another way, perhaps give 2 results for every subject - a prediction by the teacher + the prediction used, which would allow universities to better judge... students would have got a BB or AB
     
  10. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    This is the key for me.

    It would be easy to identify schools that have submitted grades outside the statistical norm of their historical average.

    Investigate these individually. Some may have had a particularly talented cohort this year. Or a new head with new processes.

    To assume that all teachers have "cheated" and treat them all the same punishes those that have legitimately excelled this year. That is just plain wrong.

    And you are correct, I would expect the results this year to exceed previous years because each student should be given the benefit of the doubt. They should be awarded the best grade that they could have reasonably expected to get because nobody can prove that they wouldn't have performed at their best on the day of the exam.

    To randomly factor in some failure based on historical stats may look good on a spreadsheet but it is plainly not fair on those that have "failed" through no fault of their own.
     
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Do results actually not get better every year? With loads of complaints they’re getting easier? Or is that a myth?
     
  12. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    Maybe I should merge this with the existing thread in the Politics section. Views?
     
  13. You could always statistically predict the answers and do it anyway :cool:
     
    HappyHornet24 and sydney_horn like this.
  14. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The algorithm would probably declare my answers as pro-Government.
     
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  15. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    I thought the politics section was kaput.

    Please don't force us to visit dante's tenth circle of hell..
     
    Jumbolina, HappyHornet24 and wfcmoog like this.
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It seems a real mess and not sure how the algorithm works but the issue is clear. Teachers marking their own students and not wanting to shaft their futures (and also wanting to look great teachers).
    Some schools obviously being more realistic than others. What do you do ? If the average mark country wide is say 20% better than usual do you just downgrade everything by 20% ? But that takes no account of perceived over-generosity of some schools vs others ? Do you just accept the grades this year but that leaves these students at a great advantage vs their peers a year before and a year after ? Do you downgrade schools back to their average of last few years but that penalises excellent students in those schools if it's applied uniformly. It's not an easy answer but is an open goal for the opposition to say "this is ****" (which it does seem to be) and "we should just trust the teachers" (which is clearly nonsense but may be the only acceptable option) .....
     
  17. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    No talk of sweaty men in Lycra, foxes in boxes or the antics of the medical staff etc or you are out.
     
  18. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Why be surprised? The government would never want to be seen following the example of the Scot Nats and therefore accept they have made the better/right decision.
     
    Moose likes this.
  19. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    What advantage would they have if they kept the inflated grades though? A-levels mean nothing in the real world. They are just a passport to university and they are not competing with their peers a year before and a year after for places.

    And most degrees mean nothing either really. When I am recruiting the character of the person is far more important than the qualifications - the vast majority of jobs do not require specific knowledge taught by a degree. If it's a young person I just presume they will have had a poor education and prepare to train them thoroughly. If it turns out they are actually pretty good at things like spelling, grammar, arithmetic etc it's just a happy bonus. This is rare, unless the young person is from overseas.
     
  20. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I agree re Uni but most recruiters of 6th form leavers use grades as a screening tool. I did wonder if all Uni's should just accept the candidates they made offers too this year but I guess they give out too many offers on the basis that some will fail ? Sorry, i'm sounding like I give a **** about this issue and I really don't. I don't have a horse in this race so disregard anything I've said.....
     
  21. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Yes I'm the same. I feel like it's a topic I should have an opinion on so I was hoping I could steal one from here.

    I couldn't actually care less what happens. It's not the end of the world and they are young so have plenty of time to sort things out. I saw some whopper on the telly the other day saying their life was ruined. Just *** off eh. I have always been suspicious of 16, 17, 18 year olds who know what they want to do with their lives at that age. Just go out get drunk, get laid and have fun. How can you care at that age? Though the uptight little ***ers dont even booze these days do they.
     
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  22. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Correct. Unis make far more offers than they have places. There simply wouldn't be physical room, or person hours, to accomodate all those students.

    It's easier for smaller Oxbridge colleges to do this but even they are constrained by the number of rooms they have available.
     
  23. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    My 16 yr old has definitely subscribed to this view of life already - the problem is, this is why her mock grades were poor which is what her GCSEs - and potential place at College - are now being based on. And, yes, they definitely still booze.
     
  24. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Just get them to send swimwear photos in and Uni's just accept the best looking ones ? Seems fair and takes this grading balls up out of the equation.
     
    Keighley likes this.
  25. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    It seems she has not been taught that while getting drunk and getting laid is important, it is of vital importance to still do the bare minimum at school to get by.

    Striving to be top of the class? Working hard for A grades/first class degrees? All completely pointless if they come at the expense of more enjoyable pursuits.

    But failure is also not an option. Your daughter needs to learn these lessons.
     
  26. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Rumours are that the algorithm is to be dumped and teachers assessments will be used instead for A-levels and GCSEs in England.

    Tory MPs have been told there will be an announcement by Williamson and OfQual at 4pm today.

    (Source: The Times).

    Here's hoping....
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  27. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    To be fair, I was being a bit flippant - her mocks were poor in relation to what she is capable of, but she didn’t fail anything; she’s only at risk if her grades are downgraded in the GCSE algorithm lucky dip.
     
  28. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    They are definitely used to determine places on grad schemes at top companies, as pretty much everyone walks out of university with a 2.1 or 1st these days. So essentially, they play a major part in determining the best jobs post university.

    U turn confirmed.

    So predictable. What a farce this whole charade has made of the whole system.

    Why not now add 10-20% to the grades of all other A level students, just for the hell of it? Or perhaps from now on, grades should be awarded based on your teachers 'kindness'.
     
  29. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Because that’s not what this is about. You can’t compare years when kids were tested and were not. Seriously, give it up.

    And this is not about teacher ‘kindness’. You act as if tens of thousands of them are not capable of the professionalism you are in your work.

    You think there is no scrutiny or pride in the assessments? That teachers can simply up the grades of moderate students to As and no one in the school says ‘hang on a minute’? If there is obvious fraud, investigate it. But otherwise accept that the inflation is simply due to the affect of no exam failure (illness, not turning up etc) and very mild and reasonable caution on the part of teachers.
     
  30. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    So, if a student with lower grades than predicted decided to take a place at a different university from their first choice last week, is that decision now to be reopened? And if universities are expected to take all students who have met the grades this year - almost certainly a larger number than usual - will that mean less space for students next year?
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  31. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    sounds like she's got the balance right to me. Enjoying her yoof without failing at school. Good for her!
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  32. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Huh I'm surprised to hear that. I'd that thought anyone going for a top grad scheme would already have decent A levels results by default.
     
  33. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Children who don't show up on the day of the exam are more likely to be those which would have achieved the lowest grades if they did show up. Serious inflation happened at all levels, including A* and A. So "give it up" that teachers are perfect and aren't at all motivated to inflate the grades of their students. Either a vast majority have clearly been unable to be impartial, or something was clearly in the water in 2002.

    27% was the previous highest proportion of grades marked at A* and A. This year it is 38%. The grade system is well and truly broken. That's not to say that the Ofqual algorithm wasn't also broken, but (political pressure aside) tweaking the inputs (and putting in safeguards - i.e. no grade reduction of more than 1 grade) would have resulted in a smaller error rate than teachers predictions, with the added opportunity for the kid to prove the system wrong at a later stage.

    I screen/, test and interview students applying a high-profile grad scheme, and of course now there will now be a huge question mark next to any student's A/ A* grade in 2020. It's completely unfair on the kids who were going to get top grades (I'm sure we will look at GCSEs and University module marks too), but there's just absolutely no confidence in the A-level system this year, and we'll be under pressure to prioritise kids with the same grades from other years.
     
  34. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Do Universities plan on the assumption that a percentage of students will fail, and offer more places than they have?
     
  35. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Why should there be any question about a candidate’s A levels if they have subsequently graduated? The grades are not broken and in three years time this will be old news.

    Weird that you talk about teacher bias and then introduce a load of your own. Are you really going to ditch good candidates because of what happened this year? Bizarre.

    And maybe stop taking people into these schemes who have done absolutely nothing but school and uni?

    Unfailingly you think the worst of public servants Mike.
     

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