The use & implementation of VAR

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by brinnyboy1985, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Well the arm will always be near to the player's body, as it's attached to the shoulder.

    No one can definitively decide what is and what is not a penalty anymore. It's all about what the referee feels like doing and it always has been. My conclusion is, if you're a big important club then you will regularly get decisions go your way. It's extremely rare for the smaller club to get a big call go for them against a big club.

    We can argue all day about the merits of the Kompany handball or Sissoko's chest on to arm against Liverpool all day long, but the impression I'm given by watching a lot of football is that smaller clubs get a rough deal from officials. This is not just Watford related, but it happens all the time to other smaller clubs as well, when they play the bigger sides.

    At least next season, there will be some type of measure. VAR reviews can be recorded and it will be interesting to see how many beneficial decisions get overturned for bigger clubs and how many negative decisions get overruled for smaller clubs. I think this is the only way you can see that there is some sort of bias, as the trend will be obvious.
  2. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Yes, agree with this.
  3. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Does this mean Palarse, with most pens last season, are a big club?

    Depressing if true.

    Overall, I agree with you. Everything - crowd, media comment, one’s reputation, player relationships - is stacked in favour of Liverpool being awarded a pen at home.

    Pretty much all of this is stacked against Watford getting the same decision at Anfield.

    I would expect the same bias to a lesser extent for the big team away.

    I don’t know if the stats support this hypothesis.
  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    No, but there a certain players/clubs that referees like, and there are definitely players/clubs officials do not like.

    We get the most yellow cards and fewest/least penalties, so it's clear what officials think of us.

    Bottom of the Fair Play league for every season since promotion. (or second bottom)

    It's pretty clear to me. Even in the Championship we were bottom

    The only season when officials gave us a break was our promotion season in 2014-15. This is the only time we've been out of the bottom 2 in 8 seasons. We finish 15th.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Same with me. On VAR I thought he tripped himself.
  6. BewareOfTheDog

    BewareOfTheDog Academy Graduate

    Somewhat ironic that the 3 straight red cards we received that season most likely wouldn't have been given today/ with VAR.

    Ekstrand against Norwich - To this day I struggle to see what a red was given for, more camera angles and VAR replays would help clear it up.

    Angella against Bournemouth - Ridiculous decision 26 seconds into a game when there's a covering defender.

    Motta against Derby - Harsh at the time, definitely not a red today.

    The referees who made these decisions? Paul Tierney, Lee Probert and Kevin Friend...
    Davidmsawyer, PowerJugs and wfcmoog like this.
  7. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    This suggests we should do something to improve our image with the ref community.
  8. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Maybe we can use HB1 as some sort of peace envoy?
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Maybe we should rename ourselves Watford United or Watford City......that should do the trick.
  10. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Yes...I'll tell them all the peace off.
    Davidmsawyer and PowerJugs like this.
  11. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Watford Palace ? "The Theatre of dreams".
  12. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    A song of conciliation springs to mind:

    What have I got to do to make you love me
    What have I got to do to make you care
    What do I do when lightning strikes me
    And I wake to find that you're not there?
    What have I got to do to make you want me
    What have I got to do to be heard
    What do I say when it's all over?
    And sorry seems to be the hardest word
    It's sad, so sad (so sad)
    It's a sad, sad situation
    And it's getting more and more absurd
    It's sad, so sad (so sad)
    Why can't we talk it over?
    Oh it seems to me
    That sorry seems to be the hardest word
  13. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    VAR is quickly getting a bad reputation.

    When it should be used and what it should be used for. As far as I can see it should be used for major decisions and that to me includes card offences. The VAR officials should be able to overrule the on the field official and let him know he has made a mistake irrespective of whether he blew the whistle or not. And the VAR officials need to be braver and also more attentive.

    Aston Villa can count themselves extremely unlucky with the appalling decision made by Friend. Leicester were lucky not to lose Tielemans but then again Lerma escaped a sending off as well. Haller should have had a penalty and a booking for his challenge on Zimmermann. And by the letter of the law as it currently stands much as Sterlings 'winner' was ruled out against Tottenham, Schars equalizer should not have stood.

    It's the inability to get decisions correct even with the aid of technology that are damaging VAR. The technology is not at fault. The humans are. They need an urgent rethink on how it is used.
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    As I said elsewhere maybe the clear and obvious bar is too high - probably because they don't want to be accused of being petty in sending players off etc.

    Also presume the VAR refs don't want to over-rule their mates so they might rely on themselves in the future - last season there was a debate over should a younger official be overruling a more experienced one.

    Also the Premier league haven't allowed the on pitch officials to look at a screen because they feared it "takes too long" - well maybe it did but surely better to get a decision right than not just because your worried about time (add it on at the end..)

    This is a sport that allowed someone who didn't even know there was a football club in Bury to take them over so probably sums up the type of people running the administration of the game at all levels.
    Smudger likes this.
  15. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Simples - put the teams in control. They have a VAR appeal against any refereeing decision - the captain is the only person who can request one for a named reason not "...that wasn't a goal..." but " hit Hayden's hand before Schaer struck it...". Player not leaving the field of pitch by the nearest point in a 'brisk' manner - VAR appeal and yellow card to the on-coming new player. And fully take the time keeping role from the ref - move it to an official timekeeper who watches with a stopwatch. If the appeal's overturned they lose it (like a hockey and cricket).
  16. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I like that idea but most teams would probably waste their review in the first 5 minutes for something minor then moan they have none left .
    Jumbolina likes this.
  17. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Or just drop Holebas .. :D
  18. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    What I don’t understand is in cricket decisions are often reversed on analysis and replays and it’s not an issue for the on-field umpires (unless an umpire is constantly messing up), and everyone is mature enough and accepts it.

    - but VAR ref in football just won’t reverse obvious errors and there must be a human - ‘we stick together and I won’t make your decision look bad’ - sort of attitude.
    It’s making referees look bad which can’t help the overall attitude towards them.
    CleyHorn, Jumbolina and wfc4ever like this.
  19. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    I've lost count the amount of tines I've seen the umpire give a goal/penalty corner decision and become surrounded by complaining players. The umpire then points out that he/she will listen to only a single player (or they will issue cards) and then listens to a single complaining player before asking "Do you want to make a referral?" 99% of the time the player sheepishly says "No".
    wfc4ever likes this.
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well VAR certainly is only used for offsides it seems .

    Thankfully for Arsenal and the assistant but Man U should have had a penalty earlier ?

    Not that I feel sorry for them !
  21. It's being used for handball and has correctly called every decision right as far as I can see based on the current interpretation of the law.

    The handball rule itself is absolutely flawed to hell though, which is the main issue.
  22. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    What about Newcastle’s equaliser against us?
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Yes I agree in the attacking sense (well apart from as WWTW points out one big exception!) but what about defending handballs?

    Or is that just too subjective to rule on?
  24. Ah balls. Ok, except that one!
  25. goldpapaya

    goldpapaya Academy Graduate

    Man U vs Ars - two wrongs do make a right sometimes. The lino should never have raised his flag for the equaliser and the referee should have disallowed it because he had blown his whistle for the offside! The lino needs to have it drummed into him (again?) that VAR has changed things and he needs to keep his flag down. He should only indicate ball out of play and foul play.
  26. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Interesting that the Arsenal players easily accepted the offside flag and disallowed goal but, after the VAR delay, went through an artificial celebration of the equaliser.
  27. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    The linesman have been told to raise the flag if they think it's offside and the ref should allow play to continue to see the outcome before blowing the whistle. I didn't think he blew his whistle last night before ohbangmegran scored
  28. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Apparently had the whistle gone VAR would have not been allowed to come into play .
  29. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    It's truly comical. Not the technology itself but how it is being used.

    Because we have idiots in the VAR booth the decisions they are coming up with are mind boggling. I don't know what they are watching. Perhaps we need a pitch side monitor for the on field referee as well rather than having to consult these clowns. I'm not talking about our decisions today which were scandalous but watching Burnley's equalizer being ruled out because Jonny Evans claims he was tripped in the process and unable to clear the ball is mind boggling.

    I cannot see a trip. I can also quite clearly make out therefore he still was unable to clear the ball. But the VAR officials for some amazing reason believe they can. These idiots are still making the same mistakes they make when they are on the field. Don't expect and English officials at the next World Cup either. They are dreadful.
  30. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    The big issue for me has been the decision to pretty much back the referee in every instance, even when there’s very good grounds to overturn. I get that we don’t want to diminish the role of the on-field ref, but it’s supposed to be a tool to support the referee and help him come to the right decision. As it is, we’re seeing poor decisions being supported by VAR when the physical evidence makes the mistake clear. There’s no excuse for misusing the technology like this.
  31. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The missing link currently is the aversion to using the pitch side screen I think.
    luke_golden likes this.
  32. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    It seems the VAR ref doesn't want to overrule the on pitch official for some reason ?

    Also we seem to get ones with butter fingers or not watching the game !
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Indeed. The current crop of officials in England are incompetent and hugely arrogant. It’s a toxic combination which combined with the imbecilic directive in this country on when to over rule leads to an absolute circus.
  34. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I agree but where does the disallowed Burnley goal come from? The VAR pillock suddenly decides that is “clear and obvious”? They are utter utter utter clowns.
    CleyHorn and luke_golden like this.
  35. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I agree, but VAR seems quite comfortable with disallowing goals for all sorts of reasons: toenail offsides, accidental handball, the accidental trip at Leicester today etc. However they seem determined not to overrule the ref on penalty decisions.
    On the Deulofeu incident today, we know from the evidence of the 88 games played so far this season that, if the ref had given a penalty, VAR would not have overruled it. So it’s clear that VAR HAS NO VIEW on these incidents, so there’s no point in VAR judging them. It’s a complete sham.

Share This Page