The "Shakers" are...

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Bwood_Horn, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    ...looking very shaky. I have a soft spot for them as one of my mates is their (un)official historian. He's been getting a lot of advice from 'our' Adam Leventhal on stetting up a TOVL 'thing' for Bury...
  2. brumhorn

    brumhorn First Year Pro

    What do people think about this proposal to have them reinstated in league two at the start of next season?

    On the one hand I feel sorry for their fans, but I'm not sure of the rationale for them only having to drop one division? Is it that they;re going to get their **** together (new owners, pay all existing debts etc.) by the start of next year?
  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Personally I think it's a great idea. They would drop a league, have no revenues this year, and have to start from scratch, player wise. But it gives them a chance to get the club sorted out, allows creditors to be paid what is due under the CVA and doesn't penalise any other club. Clubs like Bury are a focal point for the community and so many other local businesses rely on them, it would be very sad to see the club drop 5 or more leagues due to incompetant ownership. However I doubt very much the league would allow it given it would involve changing their decision.
    The FL need to build in better protections for clubs to prevent this sort of issue arising in the future.
  4. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Yeah, the idea is they'd be allowed to start in League 2 next August if they get everything sorted by a deadline of April 2020 or something. It's a proposal spearheaded by the local MP, who I'm sure is acting out of the kindness of his heart and not because it's a marginal seat.

    Basically, this is the modern approach to everything. Everyone else to blame, everyone cries about everything, no one accepts the rules when they apply to them etc etc. A handful of clubs over the years have been kicked out of the Football League and made to start again from scratch. Bury - via their owner - pissed around for months refusing to abide by the few financial rules the EFL actually has. A succession of prospective buyers got halfway up the drive and turned around because the club is in such a mess. Somehow that's been warped by most fans both of Bury and elsewhere, who only ever get skin deep into issues, as completely the EFL's fault.

    I expect, in the fullness of time, the EFL clubs will vote Bury back in. Why wouldn't they? Half of them know it could be them next and it'll serve as an excellent precedent. Basically you can now take a sabbatical from the league for a season. Have some time off, travel the world, volunteer at the local charity shop - you know, a proper career break. Then clock back in the following August ready to go and only one division down.
    wfcwarehouse likes this.
  5. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    It would be unprecedented. Clubs at the bottom end of League 2 will certainly oppose it as only one will go down to the National League as it stands at the moment.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    You forgot to add, lose all your players, have no income from a year, and still have to pay your creditors. It's not a new phoenix club which kisses goodbye to all it's debt and rightly starts again from rock bottom as a wholly new club. It's the owners who have screwed up here not the players, fans, suppliers etc. I think it's a great idea and it's no easy option for the club, but it keeps the existing club alive rather than probably killing it.
  7. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Probably. Those clubs who might possibly gain by another club dying may prefer to let that club die.
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    If they were to do that, it would have been better to just make them forfeit every game this season 3-0 and have them be relegated at the end of it.

    By expelling them and then allowing them back in, the EFL would be opening themselves up to heavy criticism for clubs in L2 and the National League. Quite rightly.

    But I feel deep down, the EFL feel they have a duty of care towards Bury seeing as it was them who waved Steven Dale through whilst looking the other way.
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    But why treat Bury differently from Maidstone/Aldershot/Halifax/Chester etc?

    (I’m aware that probably not all those or others were under the jurisdiction of the EFL when going under - just can’t remember which were!)
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Now they have expelled them I don't think they will let them back in. However it should have been considered as an option at the time given there were other potential buyers.
  11. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    I don't know the circumstances of those clubs but believe they all went bust rather than failed to get their finances sorted before an FL imposed deadline. If a club goes bust then there is no option. It's dead and has to start again from the very bottom with a new but similar name. Bury is different as they claim to have others interested in buying the club and honouring the debts agreed inder the CVA. They were only allowed to take one bidder forward and that bid fell away. Personally I would have given them until 31/3/20 to sell the business and provide future cashflow info and, if they do that, allow them to start again in Div 2 next season.
  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Have you seen the takedown of the other ‘potential’ buyers? There was a piece in one newspaper (I forget which) - none of them were credible and would have been rightly discarded as viable buyers very quickly.

    There’s been enough coverage from people close to the goings-on now. The club is rotten. And that’s just from people who saw things skin-deep...Christ knows what is lurking below.

    I’d be very very surprised if they find someone reputable with the money to plough in, to get very little (if any) back. Now or next season.

    Gary Neville, who’s mum is club secretary, says he has been told all about it. And without divulging every grubby detail, he says without hesitation the best thing the fans can do is start a Phoenix outfit.
  13. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Basically as rules currently stand, there's nothing to stop a wealthy WFC fan buying L**** and then draining it of cash and allowing it to die with no come back on the owner. There must be more protection to protect the clubs from incompetent or plain evil owners. All clubs other than L**** that is....
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
    Happy bunny and Burnsy like this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    See above.

    The MP’s are buying time for next season, to hopefully get a buyer. No one that was supposedly interested was reputable. Or even close to it.
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    How much loose change have you got?
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    In which case they would fail to sell to any of them. I'd understood one had been approved by the FL ? Trouble is when you negotiate to sell, typically the buyer insists on "exclusivity" which means any other potential buyers have to sit and wait and see if the deal is consumated so it can take a while if you pick the wrong potential buyer.
    As above, then if it can't be sold, it dies and a new phoenix club is born but 5(?) leagues down and all suppliers lose their cash...
  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Some but I wouldn't want to waste more than the coppers !
  18. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    League wont allow it
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Even that's not the full story. As I understand it, Dale bought the business from Day. Under the law of the land he didn't need permission from the EFL to do that. And so they went ahead and did their deal directly between them. Company owner to buyer.

    The EFL then had a choice of either charging Bury and Dale with breaches for not being vetted first, or letting things play out. Bare in mind if the EFL had refused to recognise Dale, Bury would have been in the **** sooner. So they gave him a chance.

    The EFL repetitively asked Dale for proof of funds over the months he was in charge but he couldn't/wouldn't provide them. Then came the CVA and more shenanigans and further failure to prove he could cover the ongoing costs and football creditor debts. Which is why things have gone as they have since the close season.
  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I like the cut of your jib!
  21. wfcwarehouse

    wfcwarehouse Strangeland

    I thought the group who’ve been spoken about since the deadline passed apparently had proof of funding, etc, and were ‘viable’? Or is that just a smokescreen?
  22. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    The other 71 clubs have refused to allow Bury back into league Two next season - not surprised as it would have set a dangerous precedent.
  23. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Corrected for you
    wfc4ever likes this.

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