The Roman Republic, Empire And It's Fall

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by StuBoy, Sep 22, 2020.

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  1. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    There is no doubt that the IDEA of the Empire was a major feature of all political theory & often practice during the early medieval period. The coronation of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor was not viewed as a new development, but a return to the natural order of the ‘golden age’. The increased influence of the Church was also paralleled in the Eastern Empire.
     
    Since63, Sep 25, 2020
    #36
  2. Mazzereth

    Mazzereth Academy Graduate

    I got back into Roman History again recently following a trip to Pompeii last January, after a period of getting 'bored' with it.

    Two good entry level books about the Roman Empire are Rubicon and Dynasty, both by Tom Holland. They cover the fall of the Republic and the Julio-Claudian dynasty. There are names and incidents in these books that the most casual fan of history will recognise and ease them in to further exploration.

    For those that like a bit of historical fiction, I suggest The Cicero Trilogy by Robert Harris.

    FYI, favourite Roman imperial name, 'Diocletian'.
     
    Mazzereth, Sep 25, 2020
    #37
  3. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    Palace fan, mate, so it’s a ‘no’ from me. Pertinax one of my favourites.
     
    Since63, Sep 25, 2020
    #38
  4. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Eats, shoots and leaves.
    Eats shoots and leaves.
    Which is the cowboy, and which is the panda?
    How the use of a comma, or not, can really **** up the meaning.
     
    Sahorn, Sep 25, 2020
    #39
  5. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    The first educational lesson must surely be the use of ‘lose’ and ‘loose’.
    I cannot understand how the Hornets loose so many games on this forum.
     
    Sahorn, Sep 25, 2020
    #40
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  6. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    For the uninitiated like myself who has not read one of these great tomes being mentioned, I can recommend the History Channel series ‘Barbarians Rising’.
    An entertaining snapshot of the history of the Roman Empire through the eyes of outsider ‘barbarians’.
     
    Sahorn, Sep 25, 2020
    #41
  7. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    And what about the success of the economy of the Roman Empire by enslavement?

    Dependant on a very high proportion of slaves to Roman Citizens in their populace, there should now be a full rewriting of history with statues of Emperors destroyed or cast into the deep and place names changed, because they all condoned and encouraged slavery.

    The whole Roman Empire would have collapsed without slaves.

    I believe there should now be full compensation paid (especially to me) on a quantum meruit basis from these dastardly Roman people.
     
    Sahorn, Sep 25, 2020
    #42
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  8. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    I concur!

    Let's eat, grandma!
    Let's eat grandma!
     
    El distraído, Sep 25, 2020
    #43
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  9. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett First Year Pro

    Do you know what ?
    I have never given thought to the importance of maths before your post
    Maybe the answers to many fall of the Roman empire there ?
     
    Davy Crockett, Sep 26, 2020
    #44
  10. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett First Year Pro

    You are a lose cannon mate
     
    Davy Crockett, Sep 26, 2020
    #45
  11. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Yeah, @Since63 makes a great point and one I hadn’t really considered before either. So many reasons why the Empire fell, but this is an interesting one.
     
    StuBoy, Sep 26, 2020
    #46
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  12. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Not me - straight as a die conformist, me.

    Although I did discover my mate's girlfriend was very lose, but he never believed me :rolleyes:
     
    Sahorn, Sep 26, 2020
    #47
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  13. Aberystwyth_Hornet

    Aberystwyth_Hornet Squad Player

    Have you read "Fate of Rome"? Not had a chance yet but apparently very good
     
    Aberystwyth_Hornet, Sep 26, 2020
    #48
  14. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I think discussion of that book led to this thread being migrated from whatever foottwatt3ry thread it started on...
     
    Since63, Sep 27, 2020
    #49
    StuBoy and Aberystwyth_Hornet like this.
  15. GarethCritic

    GarethCritic Academy Graduate

    I thought it was lead poisoning. And the reliance on slaves...
     
    GarethCritic, Sep 27, 2020
    #50
  16. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    As Since63 said it was started in the Vladimir Ivic thread. Well worth a read. Usual causes for an empire to fail are explored involving disease and climate change. Get your copy quick if you want the hardback. The prices of these once they go out of print sky rocket.

    The Romans did not innovate that much. They borrowed a lot and adapted from arches to clibinarii. If they found something useful they would adopt it. Pozzolana is an amazing material. When you look at the concrete cancer of many modern buildings while those the Roman's constructed still look magnificent. Constructing the port at Ostia under Narcissus for instance. These types of concrete after sufficient curing were incredibly strong and durable although still vulnerable to freeze-thaw something given the location of these deposits in the Mediterranean was not tested at the time.
     
    Smudger, Sep 27, 2020
    #51
  17. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I've just discovered this thread and enjoy such matters.
    I'm half way through Suetonius and 'The Twelve Caesars'.
    Tom Holland is always good value and his translation of Herodotus is excellent,not that I've read the original,although I'm getting better!
    Mary Beard was very helpful with her insight for my tutoring project and has given me good ideas on text books.
    Good thread!
     
    I Blame Bassett, Sep 27, 2020
    #52
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  18. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    One of my acquaintances (and all of their acquaintances) makes of point of dropping into conversation with her at college functions just how much they enjoy reading and re-reading Daniel P. Mannix's book...
     
    Bwood_Horn, Sep 27, 2020
    #53
  19. Aberystwyth_Hornet

    Aberystwyth_Hornet Squad Player

    I got it for my uncle last year, had been meaning to get it for myself for a while so thanks for the push - copy from Ebay in new condition on the way!

    Sure everyone reading this thread has read it but the Lives of the 12 Caesars is fascinating - edit see it's already been mentioned :)

    Studied Celtic and Roman archaeology in my final year. A long time ago now but have kept all my books about it. Loads of hidden roman remains in London if you know where to look in the city
     
    Aberystwyth_Hornet, Sep 28, 2020
    #54
    Smudger likes this.
  20. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    El distraído, Sep 28, 2020
    #55
  21. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    StuBoy, Sep 28, 2020
    #56
    Smudger, Aberystwyth_Hornet and El distraído like this.
  22. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    He goes into minute details including the Nile inundations (Chapter 4), the ENSO and the effect of poor crop yields from the bread basket of the Empire coupled with paying huge sums of money to buy off the Sassanid Persians. It is a fascinating book. And prescient.

    All this has happened before and will happen again will no doubt be familiar to @Arakel @Bwood_Horn but they too thought the world was still running smoothly on it's axis almost until the climactic end. Much as most are now blithely carrying on without thinking that every minute huge destruction and damage to the planet is occurring.
     
    Smudger, Oct 3, 2020
    #57
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  23. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    When I was a small child I was taken to London by my father to the Tower of London but one of the first places I remember stopping at was looking at this old wall. I remember vividly looking at it and being amazed as a small child at how old it was as related by my dad. It left a profound impression on me and triggered a deep interest in history from that point on. Just the sight of this magnificent facade and how it has affected London ever since for instance in it's modern layout.
     
    Smudger, Oct 3, 2020
    #58
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  24. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Finished reading this over Christmas along with Augustus by Adrian Goldsworthy, both very good books and as you say @Smudger very prescient considering our current circumstances Fate of Rome was. A fascinating read. I was pleasantly surprised the wife brought me Suetonius the Twelve Caesars for Christmas, which I shall move onto next.
     
    StuBoy, Jan 2, 2021
    #59
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  25. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Suet,as Ford and Arthur call him is entertaining,although I haven't finished him as have jumped onto "The Secret Code" about Divine Proportion.
     
    I Blame Bassett, Jan 3, 2021
    #60
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