The consequences of that mauling

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetboy1, May 20, 2019.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I just wonder what the consequences of that defeat will be.

    They are still talking about the Derby thrashing in 1903!! That result will be a stain on our record books. No one wants the record (joint with Derby) in their history books.

    We are being laughed at by rivals and sympathised by neutrals. It's going to be thrown at us in every match next season no doubt. It's not going to be very pleasant.

    Deeney is now the captain of the worst team to play in an FA Cup final in living memory and every player in that team will be tarnished by it. It's going to be a millstone around their necks.

    Just getting there, is not really going to cut it. Getting their then embarrassing yourself is what's going to be remembered.

    If we ever get to a final again, will these players be invited back, like the '84 team were? Will they be remembered fondly?

    It really brings it home when the manager of the opposition is squirming in his chair when the sixth goal went in.

    This result will be used to emphasise how small Watford are as a club. It's a case of "ahhh…..poor little Watford, but you did well to get there" tap on the head.

    It's going to take a lot to break away from this. A result like a thrashing in an FA Cup final, will stay with Watford forever.

    It brought it home to me when I bumped into a Spurs supporting friend yesterday. Without prompting he just said "good grief, what happened there? That was painful to watch". That's coming from a neutral fan who was genuinely uncomfortable about the match.

    I know the attitude will be "we'll lick our wounds and bounce back stronger", but I wonder how deep these cuts really go. It could cause some real damage to morale going forward.

    It's not so much the size of defeat that's bad, as we've had these before, but it's the match it happened in.

    What do others think the fall out from this will be? Or will it be business as usual next season with no long term side effect?
     
  2. I vote that are stripped naked and made to walk from the ground to the pond whilst we all shout Shame at them
     
  3. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    It's sport. You have to take the victories with the defeats.

    There can be no fall out. Most likely the opposite, a positive reaction by the players at the start of next season to gain back any perceived lack of credibility. Which personally I don't think there is.

    You can be sure fans/clubs that provoke are either on the same level as us or most likely below.
     
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  4. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    If players are that fragile, they are going to be permanently damaged by this, then we need to identify them and get rid. We have been written off many times, and no doubt will be many pundits favourites to go down again. I think with some good business in the summer we can start well again.
     
  5. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    You'd like to think the players will use this humiliation as motivation to push on and raise their performance level. Identifying why it happened and where they can improve.

    But I suspect the vast majority of them have forgotten all about it. Pereyra was posting videos on instagram of himself all smiles, cooking with his kids just hours later for example.

    Deeney will be worried about the impact it will have on his brand.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  6. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc Squad Player

    It can't help us with summer recruitment.

    Even if we lost if doucoure had played a blinder and scored he could have added 10m to his value which would have been lovely.
     
  7. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    I normally agree with most of what you post but you are wrong.
    Since Derby lost 6-0 to Bury they have been:
    Champions twice
    Runners up 3 times
    Fa Cup winners once
    + 5 other division winners
    I wouldn't say it had any effect on their status and that was when the FA cup actually meant everything. If anything it makes you want to win it even more next time.
    To win anything you have to be in it so you win some and you lose some.
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Let's just hope it's the only record Derby have that we match!!

    I am sure the players will say it hurt etc but who knows in reality ..

    Some might not be here next season .
     
  9. Roger Irrelevant

    Roger Irrelevant Reservist

    If you care what other people think of us then you are supporting the wrong team.
     
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  10. Horace_goes_up_north

    Horace_goes_up_north First Year Pro

    I think the older I get, the more I realise there are more important things to worry about once the footballs over.

    Life's too short to dwell or get angry or frustrated.

    We will be reminded of it every game next season by the opposition and it will be mentioned every fa cup round no doubt, but by then it will be numb in the memory like a distant dream. And by the following season it'll all be forgotten, brought up only if a team come close to repeating it.

    If I could request however that the singing section spend most of the summer coming up with a witty song retort to "Did you cry at Wembley" etc then that would be appreciated.
     
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  11. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! First Year Pro

    Hard to say, because it's a pretty unprecedented defeat, but I don't think there'll be any huge repercussions. First of all, teams have bounced back from harrowing defeats before and done well, think the Wolves and Leicester semi-finals against us, or even Chelsea who got ****ed by City earlier in the season (which is arguably worse as they're a team full of title winners, should a team like that ever lose 6-0?). Secondly, I highly doubt the players will be bothered by a bunch of random social media posts or chants from our 'rivals', in fact I hardly think those fans will remember for very long. The FA Cup final is great and all, but only if your team does well, it's not something that neutrals will remember for very long these days. Likewise, while I'm sure they'll be cut up about it, it's not the be all and end all for them, the FA Cup isn't considered as important as it used to be, and a lot of the squad have experience at major international competitions and European competitions which would rank just as high if not higher than an FA Cup in importance to them.

    Finally, we have a good long break now before football starts again, that should give them plenty of time to clear their thoughts. Hopefully by the time August rolls around we'll have cleared out the dead wood, kept our key players and added some fresh blood
     
  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    We'll win the title next season.
     
  13. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Interesting thought but as RC said, if it does effect them in 3 months time then we need to offload them. Pereyra cooking with kids I have no problem with at all. He is a family man and he was doing something that probably helped him get over the result. I would like to think that this will make us stronger as a club and we could push forward. The one plus point is that I'm not sure any watching scouts will have have been all that impressed with Delofeu or Doucoure
     
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  14. Ágætis Byrjun

    Ágætis Byrjun First Year Pro

    Consequences? The headline news was that Kompany was leaving to become Anderlecht manager within 12 hours of the result. Think it'll go down as just another Man City mauling.
     
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  15. EB Hornet

    EB Hornet Reservist

    It will have some effect I'd say, but how much depends on the clubs plans over the summer and Javi's man management ability.

    There's no way the players will just 'forget' the final, they will be feeling humiliated, whether they care about Watford or not is irrelevant, they got beat 6-0 in front of millions and millions of people. They've had a huge dose of reality and many of them will have some self doubt from that, either in themselves or this squad of players.

    If the club make some good signings, introduce some enthusiastic youngsters and can work out which players haven't go the mental strength to come back stronger and move them on then we'll be fine - or better even.

    I don't think it does much damage to us as a club though. The result, even 6-0, doesn't seem to have created that much of a stir. I'm the only Watford fan I know and I've had no grief, no sympathy, no mocking, nothing. Man City won 6-0? So just your average saturday afternoon then.
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  16. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Too easy.

    Make them wear Holebas trousers.
     
  17. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Good news for Brand Deeney!

    His rising star as a pundit isn't because he is a perennial winner.

    More he's the gobby but eloquent controversialist who says the unsayable.

    Being part of Saturday means more people will be aware of him now.

    Could even be panto opportunities.
     
    Vanhorn17 likes this.
  18. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Bouncebackability from FLDCFC!
     
    Beekayess likes this.
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    To quote Alan Partridge, I'd hope its a case of 'evolution, not revolution'.

    Those in power at the club have to quickly identify why it happened. Why we didn't turn up. Was it the preparation? Was it the leadership? Arrogance?The quickest way to rid ourselves of the tag we may find ourselves lumbered with come August is to make the necessary adjustments to the squad and start next season well. Win a few games, sit amongst the top clubs and people will say we've done well to rid ourselves of the memory. But start slowly and it will become the go-to comment for everyone. We just haven't recovered etc etc.

    A performance like that can never be a positive for a fan. Some will defend the players, as is their right to their opinion. But I feel like the players let the fans and themselves down.
    But a performance like that can be turned into a positive for the club if they use it to weed out the weak-minded individuals in the squad. I have no doubt that there are some players who are weak of mind but could be remedied of that by having better on-field leadership. But it's the ones who cannot do that that need identified.

    From the outside looking in, I think the club would be lifted by signing some quality defenders and identifying a new captain. To me, that would send a message from the manager and owner that what happened wasn't acceptable.

    If the club need to sell to raise funds, that's one thing. But if not, I'd also like a strong message to be sent to our better players angling for a move. You came up against a team more to the standard to which you think you belong - and you got shown up. You're going nowhere unless it's 100% on our terms.

    A summer of our better players lifting their skirt to bigger clubs won't go down well with me after that performance.
     
  20. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    Are you talking about since the game? I genuinely did not know what the worst defeat in an FA Cup Final was until it became possible we were in line to beat it.

    Certainly no way has that game in 1903 still being talked about in general terms. We’ll get some stick next season and that will pretty much be it. Partly because no one will really care and partly because most of the supporters will realise they are currently 90mins away from an equal or worse beating against that City side.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    If you know the folks from Derby, it's something they've always carried around with them. Worst FA Cup final defeat, worst Premier League points total. It's something fans from other teams will always throw at you.

    But in general, I'm talking about how the fans and players will feel next season. I just wanted to hear what people think would be the situation. Will we suffer because of it, or come back stronger.
     
  22. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    You would hope so, but my fear is when the fixtures come out and we're away to City or Liverpool first game next season and find ourselves 2/3-0 down at half time that the wheels may actually fall off early.

    Unless we get some fresh faces in this summer, this defeat could have longer term impacts than many imagine. I am more concerned about that than looking like absolute mugs in the final.
     
  23. R4E

    R4E Reservist

    You should have reminded him that Spurs lost 6-0 to Man City not that long ago. It's unfortunate it happened to us in a cup final rather than a far less important (to us) league match, but we're not alone in being outclassed by the billionaires.
     
  24. Squibba

    Squibba Predictor Choker 14/15

    The consequences include a mix of abuse / laughing / patronising "it's okay they're Man City" at work.

    Kill me now
     
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Anyone can lose heavily to a top side, or even a crap side, every now and then. Cardiff lost 5-1 at home to us!!

    But it's quite rare to happen between teams from the same division in a Cup final. Everyone tries that little bit harder and it generally produces closer games as a result.

    We tend to do this on a regular basis. Last three trips to Anfield has seen us lose 1-6, 0-5, 0-5. Three of our last 5 games against City have been 0-6, 0-5, 0-6. All the other games we lose also, but by a smaller margin. There is something fundamentally wrong with our approach to these games. If we were clearly as bad as these games suggest, we wouldn't even be able to complete in the Premier League against other clubs.

    The gap we find is far wider between us and the top six than it is for other clubs around us. I'm not sure why that is.

    How can we be the "best of the rest" but so pathetic against the top six. It doesn't compute with me.
     
    põder likes this.
  26. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    The consequences? Not much really. You've got to take the rough with the smooth. Others will live off our Cup Final defeat for a long time, we still live off the 4-0 defeat of Luton back in 97' and we still get people pointing out to us that Elton John is a homosexual. It'll only get to you if you let it.

    I only hope the team don't remain too disillusioned.
    Good on him. Some things, like family, are more important than football. What do you want him to do, post a picture of him yelling at his kids, or a suicide note maybe?
     
  27. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    What are you lot on about? Who cares what the result was?

    Tell your colleagues loud and proud that you paid £100 to watch Heurelho's big day out. What else matters?
     
    Rozerhorn likes this.
  28. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    I have a Luton fan friend at work who made £350 betting on a 6-0 win. :(
     
    Squibba likes this.
  29. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Elton John's a what ? I hope you've got some proof before making a claim like that on a public forum ?
     
  30. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    And isn’t that part of the “fun” of being a Watford supporter. We often veer from one extreme to the other. I really do not know how we will go next season but I’d say Saturday actually doesn’t have a huge reasoning behind this. We are always unsure about which players we will keep, who we will lose, who we will buy. I’m not sure the defeat will overly impact this based on the level of players we are realistically in the market for.

    As for the physiology of those who stay? I think those that may be impacted are those we are likely to be letting go anyway, or at least becoming squad players, namely the defence. Mariappa will probably step aside. The manner in which Cathcart’s form went after “that” goal makes me think he is the one who this may affect the most. In other words, the area of the pitch we knew needed sorting even before the game.

    Also, can we afford the luxury of carrying the likes of Pererya and Deulofeu if they are not producing? We may not be able to replace Deulofeu from an ability standpoint but from a commitment point of view, good ability and more of a team player I suspect there are a number Pozzo’s have on the radar.

    Of course we can question one or two players application during the game as well but as a club, next season, I’d like to think we’ll be ok.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  31. jrmich9

    jrmich9 Reservist

    I think a strong pre-season and a nice home game start will have us in good stead again, it hurts now but new targets and new goals and some new personnel should have us firing.

    But...may be a stupid question, but we don't have to play them again in the Community Shield do we..?!
     
  32. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! First Year Pro

    Can fully understand the worst Premier League season hanging over their heads, that's one whole season of utter *****, and one which most of them were around to see. Must have been utterly demoralising, far worse than any of us are feeling now!

    Struggle to believe they're still haunted by the Cup final defeat, it was well over 100 years ago when the game was basically a kick about, and it's certainly not common knowledge that people can use against them, I certainly had no idea of that until City scored the 6th
     
  33. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Yes I agree with you. Nowhere in my post did I suggest otherwise.

    Perhaps try being less of a hysterical overreacting old woman some of the time.
     
  34. Meister

    Meister Administrator Staff Member

    The scoreline doesn't fairly represent the game. Anyone that doesn't understand that, doesn't understand football or didn't watch the game and as such their opinion based off the back of it is irrelevant. At times we had the upper hand we just didn't take our chances and were poor in defence.

    With respect to other consequences then it really depends what the Pozzos want to do next.

    As a mere business opportunity, as a shop window Doucore's lost some shine although got a feeling there's a deal already done there.
    GD is the only one who I'd put a transfer request in off the back of that performance if I was a manager of another club.

    If we're a business, a selling club then there won't be any consequences. We buy young or out of favour foreign players or get people in on a free so that result won't affect anything. If the Pozzos want us to kick on they'll look at it and the end of season dip and understand that we need to both improve quality and depth in the squad to manage a full season.
     
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    If we are truly going to improve next season, we need to trim the squad and move out those players who are not contributing.

    My hit list, for various reasons, is:
    Prodl, Gomes, Janmaat, Lukebakio, Britos, Kabasele, Zeegelaar, Foulquier, Navarro, Sema, Okaka, Success, Sinclair & Hoban.

    They probably wont all go, but I don't believe we really need the bulk of these players. Gomes I have no problem in retaining, but he's likely to retire, as is Britos. Prodl will clearly go, as will Okaka and Sinclair. Janmaat has only 1 year left and was out of the first team in the run in. I think he'll go. Kabasele is far too erratic and I don't think Gracia trusts him.

    We'd get some money for Lukebakio, Janmaat, Success, Okaka and Kabasele. The rest will be nominal fees, but we'd be saving a lot on salaries.

    I think Pereyra will go too, as I don't think he'd sign a new contract.

    That could raise as much as £60-65m in transfer fees!!

    I may even add Cucho to the list, depending on if we receive a good offer. I doubt he'd ever get a work permit, and last season was a disappointing one for him.

    The only other player with a question mark, who would attract a good fee, would be Penaranda. I still have some hope for him, but Gracia has to start using him or else he may as well be sold as well.

    So that's my 15 to go. If all that happens, then we'd need 2 x CB's, 1 x wide player, 1 x striker. 1 x RB.

    15 out 5 in, but those 5 in have to be first team players on Premier League ability, not squad players.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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