The beginning of the end for the BBC...

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by zztop, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015 we know it? I think so.

    The **** is really starting to hit the fan over the pensioners TV licence, particularly after the revelations about their salaries.

    Of course, their defenders are blaming the government, but the fact is the BBC accepted responsibility for those pensioners licence fees as part of the deal a few years ago that provided increases to the licence fee. The BBC's Lord Hall accepted it at the time as part of what he called was a good deal for the BBC.

    It is clearly the BBC's responsibility, despite any of their wriggling, and they have made the decision on their own. They can easily make cuts, elsewhere.

    High executive salaries, pensioners, political bias, changing viewing habits?

    Turbulent times, I believe.
    Lloyd and iamofwfc like this.
  2. wimbornet

    wimbornet Reservist

    Can somebody please explain to me why we *have* to pay for a tv license. I don’t watch BBC yet have to pay for it if I use my tv. Bonkers.

    Surely subscription based access to services consumed has to happen at some time.
  3. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    The BBC had no choice but to accept the free over 75s licence. They were hardly in a position to refuse the deal.

    Sadly though, I suspect you're right about the demise of the BBC, formerly one of the prides of Britain, now for some reason despised by those who continue to call themselves 'conservatives'. I shall miss BBC2 & 4 TV and Radios 2, 4 and 5. Most especially I will miss the absence of adverts.
  4. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Without question it is the Government’s fault, closely followed by those in that age group that have consistently voted for them and their punitive approach to the less well off. So sad that you vote for this, applaud it.

    The BBC has made 20%+ cuts in the last five years. It is not going to be able to make enough cuts or salary changes to pay for the huge cost of free licence fees for the over 75s and frankly why should it? A means tested approach is not unreasonable when well off pensioners vote to reduce so many benefits for others.

    The state needs a national broadcaster. You talk of bias, but who else will cover the next Royal **** show and ensure their popularity? No one else will do what it does across a breadth of programming in the regions and nations. It could though move at some point to a two tier model of a rump service of news and big events paid for by the state and then ‘Strictly’ and ‘Bodyguard’ behind a paywall.

    And then the haters like you and iamofwfc can for all time shut up with your juvenile claims of bias that you read in a newspaper owned by an offshore billionaire and watch Fox News.

    The BBC is flawed, but also an absolute gem. Culturally it embodies the UK, for better or worse.

    But of course that UK is something you and your fellow English nationalists wish to subjugate or destroy. Not for you to serve England and the Highlands and Islands, the left, the right, young and old etc equally.
  5. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    As Ron Burgundy said: "Boy, that escalated quickly"
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I agree the TV licence as a concept is starting to look dated and will probably have to be reformed when the next charter comes up for negotiation. People don’t watch tv in the traditional way anymore and the BBC has a big job on its hands to stay relevant. For me, it’s spread too thin and too quick to promote fringe causes.

    But the arguments for reform are undermined when the loudest condemnation and rabble rousing comes from rival media organisations/moguls who look so jealously at it.

    Your comment, "They can easily make cuts, elsewhere" is not supported by the evidence. The BBC have already stated the cost of free TV licences for Over 75s is “the equivalent to what we spend today on all of BBC Two, BBC Three, BBC Four, the BBC News Channel, CBBC and CBeebies”. Do those sound like easy cuts to you?

    And the point about salaries is a complete red-herring. As in football, we can debate all day about the state of the market and why people who divide opinion are paid what they’re paid. But reducing salaries would make no difference to the TV licence concession. The BBC said last month (because, surprise surprise, a Daily Telegraph columnist was on her high horse) it, “could only save £25m if it kept all salaries at or below £150,000”. The cost of the concession is £745m!

    Of course, the ultimate aim here is to obscure the Tory government’s cowardice. Rather than having an honest debate with the public and admitting the concession was costly and only getting more costly, and probably unaffordable in a climate of austerity, it forced it on the BBC from 2020. Washed its hands of it and sent the poison pill elsewhere. John Whittingdale, the then culture secretary who oversaw the BBC charter renegotiation, has recently admitted that when the decision was taken to transfer responsibility to the BBC, “it was understood that this would be a possible outcome".
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  7. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Plenty of Tory politicians hate the BBC. I am sure they are delighted at the complaints. Almost as if it were a deliberate strategy...
  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I guess the issue is you see the likes of Gary Lineker getting what he does for doing very little so no surprise there is outrage...
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    It's not so much about Lineker himself, it's just the point of why would they pay that to him for such an inconsequential role.

    Would less people watch MOTD because Gaby Logan is presenting it? Highly unlikely.

    The only thing I can conclude is that they believe they have the rights to the PL highlights because of him and therefore he has them over a barrel.
    CarlosKickaballs and wfc4ever like this.
  10. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Completely antiquated practice.

    Like paying our road tax to ESSO.
    iamofwfc likes this.
  11. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    ‘The only thing not mediocre about them is what theyy choose to pay themselves.’

    Actually, this was Brad Gilbert assessing the management at the LTA.

    But he could equally have been discussing the BBC.
  12. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    wfcmoog and GoingDown like this.
  13. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    This is redolent of John Major’s speech about maiden aunts bicycling across village greens whilst the workers drink warm beer in country pubs.
  14. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    What would you like to see? Everything in the UK run on commercial lines?

    After the massive successes of the utilities or G4S etc etc etc good luck with that.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  15. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    They also probably fear he and other high earners will go elsewhere but like you say someone else would step up and replace them perfectly well or even better!
  16. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    He already works elsewhere. Does Champions League on BT too.
    iamofwfc and wfc4ever like this.
  17. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The historical high salaries are a leftover of trying to introduce 'the market' into the BBC. So, the crazy thinking goes, to justify the licence fee the BBC has to compete with commercial rivals. Once you go down that rabbit hole then the sky is the limit.

    Fortunately, this is no longer the policy and while the BBC is still a nice and steady earner for the top 'talent' they will all have to go elsewhere in future to get the really big bucks.

    You are right that most of them are easily replaceable and it has allowed the BBC to nurture new and quite diverse talents.
  18. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    The BBC has been badly managed though. Far too many political appointees concerned most of all with regulating content according to their ministerial bosses.

    It ought to be way less hideously white and should leave populist stuff like reality TV, talent shows and soap operas to the commercial stations. It should be much more cutting edge and also informative and educational.

    It should be like channel 4 was when it first started. Unique and different.
    iamofwfc, sydney_horn and UEA_Hornet like this.
  19. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Do you believe the roads should be fully self-funding? I mean I never use the A419 so why should I pay for it?
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Yes, it has been badly managed. I'm not sure that is a reason to get rid of the licence fee though. It's the independence of the fee that allows it to be independent. Successive Governments have complained that it is biased against them, so its not clear that it simply does their bidding.

    It's one of the most diverse employers in the country now (a reason the right hate it so much) and not hideously white anymore. If you ventured a peak at, for example, the BBC 3 programming you'd see that creatively it is very diverse.

    And a lot of people like talent shows and soaps. The BBC has always considered its job is not just to give wall to wall Attenborough, but to entertain and educate through every medium. Don't think for a moment that you or I have our fingers on the pulse Clive. People will not watch BBC Four in their millions (though it all has a place). When 'Bake-off' was launched I remember thinking the shark had truly been jumped and that no one could possibly watch such drivel. But a huge success, launching the careers of a diverse range of people and bringing the entire nation together through sugar and saturated fat. Pure modern UK. It doesn't have to do these things or other popular stuff like Radio One's big weekend, but only the BBC would take those massive stars to Derry Norwich, Maidstone, Hackney and Sunderland.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  21. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    North Norfolk Digital?
  22. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Perfectly demonstrates the reciprocal relationship between the BBC and the commercial sector.
  23. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Yeah, all true and to be clear, I am not in favour of scrapping the licence. Just for it to be used better.

    The argument made by the right, that the licence fee is increasingly irrelevant in these multiple channel days, carries some weight though. I suspect the first move will be capping or reducing the licence fee and forcing the BBC to take adverts - probably manipulating it to put the blame on the BBC themselves ("a decision entered into purely by BBC management and nothing to do with us") in the event of any backlash.

    My solution would be to make the licence fee progressive, so those who can afford it contribute according to their means. Perhaps it could be linked to council tax bands in the first instance, with free licences for those who don't pay council tax for one reason or another. Should be easy to implement and income ought to remain steady or increase.

    There are too many poor people in prison for non-payment of fines for not having a licence. It's not fair that it's a fixed sum irrespective of your means to pay.
    sydney_horn and Happy bunny like this.
  24. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    We might get better quality rumour info if this was put in place ?
    (ps I took the line space out in the quote just to p*** you off).
  25. Thereby forcing an uneccessary 'tax' on those who don't actually watch TV? A tad unfair I think...
  26. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    No, you would have to have a TV or radio to pay it.
  27. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Without Esso, where would we get our transfer news scoops?
  28. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    And how do you find that out?

    No licence for watching/listening online?
  29. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I agree. How fortunate we are that leftists don't go in for political appointees.
  30. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Well the same way they find out you've got a telly now. The detector van!

    It ought to be easy enough to restrict online access too. Maybe you could receive your secure login details with your licence.
  31. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    The fact I said "political appointees" rather than "Tory appointees" would indicate that I didn't restrict my criticism only to the right.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  32. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I like the idea of progressive payment, but that would be horribly bureaucratic
    However, we do have progressive taxation, so why not fund the BBC out of taxation, provided there is some guarantee of independence as with the Office for Budget Responsibility and the Official Statistics?

    At the moment the Beeb has to go populist to justify a licence fee which everybody pays for, but the justification for its special status is that it runs things like Radio 3 which just aren't commercial.
  33. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I suppose they still use detector vans. I must confess I have never seen one.
  34. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Criminalisation is quite wrong for a debt and there also needs to be the choice to opt out (though not on an element that pays for transmitters and the World Service etc. This could come from direct taxation).

    One problem is that a subscription model would isolate many older folk (and rural too) without broadband. Hence the commitment to Freeview for not just the BBC, but also ITV, C4, C5, the public service channels god in her infinite wisdom saw fit to create.

    But the politics of ZZ would simply dance on the graves of poor rural folk. It’s not like the Tories want to house them or pay for local services like care so let them go without TV too, because someone said something they disagreed with and they cannot cope with that.
  35. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    I don't think they actually exist in reality!
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